2014/06/27 17:59:30
drewfx1
Something else to keep in mind - traditional acoustic treatment can also be thought of as a filter that acts on the signal at the listening position.
2014/06/27 18:08:56
The Maillard Reaction

http://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/docs/00/21/95/66/PDF/ajp-jphyscol197940C860.pdf

 
They don't mention the weighting on the SPL figure.
 
The analogy of 160dBSPL to a jet engine sort of made sense, until I read that the paper was written about a 20kHZ test tone rather than broadband sound.
 
The test results published in that paper show that a source quantified as a 20kHz sine wave at 130.5dBSPL at 0.012 meters from it's source exhibits nonlinear transmission when sampled at 2.1 meters where the level has dropped to approximately 118dBSPL.
 
 
It makes me wonder how I would compare, in real life, a discrete sine wave at, lets say 118dB? SPL to 83dBC SPL.
 
 
 
Also, the test shows that non linearity increases with distance, and since the discussion of "Room Correction" is contextual to the effects of reflections I would like to point out that the distances involved are multiplies of the dimensions of the room and as such can become rather large.
 
I don't see any mention of why the tests were performed at such high levels, I just see the reporting of the fact that this is how the test was conducted. I might infer that the use of such high source levels was merely a convenience as the dimensions of their chamber were a constraint with regard to capability of measuring at a distance.
 
They do mention "saturation" in an off hand way. Perhaps they are implying that the non linearity only occurs at or near "saturation"? The more dramatic distortion exhibited at the longer distances and lower dBSPL seems, to me, to show that "saturation" may not be a pre requisite.  
 
One thing I could not help but notice is that the introduction emphasizes that previous tests have shown that propagation of sound pressure is non linear at other, lower test frequencies.
 
Another thing I could not help but notice was the conclusion confirming that non linearity was observed and that power losses up to 99% can occur in relatively short distances.
 
Thanks for sharing the paper, I found it very interesting and it left me wondering if there are any subsequent studies that may answer some of the questions it left me with. Good stuff!
 
 
2014/06/27 18:15:27
The Maillard Reaction
So, my wife is now very angry with me.
 
I made a test tone in Adobe Audition, (24bit/96kHz) at 14kHz (It took me second but I figured out that I can't actually hear a 160dB?SPL 20kHz test tone... turn it UP!!!) and I shoved my SPL meter up near the tweeter.
 
My wife, and dog ran out of the room, but what I observed is that my meter set to C weighting reported over 120dBC SPL and my hardware knobs etc. were set at "nominal" playback levels.
 
This leads me to conclude that a 20kHz test tone at 160dB?SPL at a couple millimeters doesn't seem as loud as a jet engine.
 
FWIW, I've stood on the flight line as F22s were taking off... watching my meters pinned to the wall. :-) They are loud!
2014/06/27 18:27:09
drewfx1

I don't see any mention of why the test were performed at such high levels, I just see the reporting of the fact that this is how the test was conducted. I might infer that the use of such high source levels was merely a convenience as the dimension of their chamber were a constraint with regard to capability of measuring at a distance.

 
They are talking about the air itself running out of "headroom" and distorting, which only happens at extraordinarily high SPL levels.
2014/06/27 18:36:21
The Maillard Reaction
How about the results showing that the distortion becomes more and more pronounced at ever greater distances and at SPLs well below the high SPL figures mentioned in the introduction?
2014/06/27 18:48:51
The Maillard Reaction
I just made a pink noise test with a 24bit/96kHz pink noise file to get some idea of how it relates to the high frequency sine wave example.
 
I placed my SPL meter at the apex of an equilateral triangle defined by two speakers and my SPL meter. The sides of the triangle were approximately 42" long. I set the playback level of the noise to 83dBC SPL.
 
Then I moved the meter in and placed it approximately 1 " from the woofer and then the tweeter.
 
95dBC SPL at 1" from a woofer and 112dBC SPL at 1" from a tweeter.
 
 
2014/06/27 18:56:32
drewfx1
mike_mccue
I just made a pink noise test with a 24bit/96kHz pink noise file to get some idea of how it relates to the high frequency sine wave example.
 
I placed my SPL meter at the apex of an equilateral triangle formed defined by two speakers and my SPL meter. The sides of the triangle were approximately 42" long. I set the playback level of the noise to 83dBC SPL.
 
Then I moved the meter in and placed it approximately 1 " from the woofer and then the tweeter.
 
95dBC SPL at 1" from a woofer and 112dBC SPL at 1" from a tweeter.
 
 




What are you after here?
 
It seems to me that between the room, 2 speakers, filtered (pink) noise, C weighting and whatever the crossover response of your speakers is, there are a lot of variables there.
2014/06/27 20:00:04
The Maillard Reaction
I was just trying to see how my nominal listening experience compares to some of the SPL figures shown in the graphs on the paper about the linear/non linear sound transmission.
 
It is fairly routine for me to spend the day at 83dBCSPL at my "ear spot", If I start rocking too hard I try to check and dial back down to that level, but I never much thought about what the levels were right at the speakers.
 
 
2014/06/27 21:22:59
DeeringAmps
The math is giving me a headache :-(
"My wife, and dog ran out of the room, but what I observed is..."
is giving me a belly ache (from belly laughing) :-)
BUT, I don't feel like a punching bag any more!

T
2014/06/27 21:25:39
losguy
I have a sense that, as SPL goes up, your speakers will distort much quicker than the air or reflection points will. I have no proof of this, though, nor any references that come up quickly via Google. The test would be to use a THD analyzer, driving a sinewave emitter with known-low distortion over the desired range of SPL near the emitter, then measure THD at various distances both echoic and anechoic, and over a well-chosen set of frequencies and driving SPL's.
 
If you cobble that together, you could probably publish the results! Or just post them here for us to see. Or perhaps you may have more luck than I did finding something to this effect on the web. Either way, it would be interesting to know what comes out of it all!
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