The fact that you feel at liberty to make criticisms about stuff that you can easily ignore makes you seem presumptuous, hypocritical and mean spirited.


best regards,
mike

I've asked you to explain it to me, Mike and you've refused. 

I really would like to know how a wall wart can increase or limit headroom.  If you explain that in a manner that I can agree with then I will apologize and remove the snark.

Well, how about if someone explains it and you don't agree with it?


Do we have to agree before you agree to be polite?




BTW, I wouldn't just focus myopically on the "wall wart"... the 12v part can also be considered. For example, someone might interject the idea that a 24v wall wart may also be considered.

Someone else might suggest that 12v wall warts have differing amperage capabilities... which may be pertinent when another person points out that a voltage regulator down the line may or may not nullify the consideration of the wall warts voltage... or it may just add a subtle difference in perspective.

A discussion like that will hardly fit in a single post.  





Anyways, now that you've taken a Beagle on the idea I have lost my enthusiasm for discussing it today... but it's pretty basic audio engineering stuff so I'm confident that anyone that actually wants to can follow the question and see ideas that could be introduced to the discussion.







Here are some examples of how the question I have asked might apply to this conversation:

Does the Apogee One have as much headroom as the Apogee Symphony? Is there a very easy and obvious reason why they are different?


Does the MOTU Ultralight have as much Headroom as the MOTU 192 with the very same akm converters? Is there a very easy and obvious reason why they are different?

If those kinds of questions make you curious... have fun with it. I think it's fun stuff I hope you do to.







If those kinds of questions offend your sensibility and make you want to dump a Beagle... please just do it in the bushes instead of publiclly demonstrating a hunger for conflict and a revelry in misunderstanding. 

In other words... please just ignore me. I didn't make the first post to fuel your anger... so please just ignore it if you don't think you want to enjoy having a discussion about it.



best regards,
mike

mike_mccue


Well, how about if someone explains it and you don't agree with it?


Do we have to agree before you agree to be polite?

I actually think I would have been disappointed if you hadn't said that. 
 
no, I don't have to agree with you, but you have to present your case in a way that is theoretically possible or feasible. 

BTW, I wouldn't just focus myopically on the "wall wart"... the 12v part can also be considered. For example, someone might interject the idea that a 24v wall wart may also be considered.

Someone else might suggest that 12v wall warts have differing amperage capabilities... which may be pertinent when another person points out that a voltage regulator down the line may or may not nullify the consideration of the wall warts voltage... or it may just add a subtle difference in perspective.

A discussion like that will hardly fit in a single post.  

but that's not what your original questions were.  these are some of the reasons I wanted it explained. 
 
if you're using the same power rated wall-wart (an assumption) then why would that matter once it reaches the regulators?
 
if you're not using the same power rated wall-wart - then exactly how does that buy you more headroom?

Anyways, now that you've taken a Beagle on the idea I have lost my enthusiasm for discussing it today... but it's pretty basic audio engineering stuff so I'm confident that anyone that actually wants to can follow the question and see ideas that could be introduced to the discussion.

ah - so I'm the only one who's being "impolite, presumptuous, hypocritical and mean spirited"? 
 
self examination may be in order.

Here are some examples of how the question I have asked might apply to this conversation:

Does the Apogee One have as much headroom as the Apogee Symphony? Is there a very easy and obvious reason why they are different?


Does the MOTU Ultralight have as much Headroom as the MOTU 192 with the very same akm converters? Is there a very easy and obvious reason why they are different?

If those kinds of questions make you curious... have fun with it. I think it's fun stuff I hope you do to.

but you posed the question in reference to the wall-warts, not the converters or any other part of the circuit.  yes, I am curious about how they're different, but not in respect to one wall-wart or another affecting the headroom.  you're starting to inject other variables into the equation.
 
I would like to go back to the original "snarky" questions and find out how a wall wart can affect the headroom.  remove all other variables such as the converters, the onboard circuitry and discuss only the difference in headroom a different wall wart can make.

If those kinds of questions offend your sensibility and make you want to dump a Beagle... please just do it in the bushes instead of publiclly demonstrating a hunger for conflict and a revelry in misunderstanding. 

In other words... please just ignore me. I didn't make the first post to fuel your anger... so please just ignore it if you don't think you want to enjoy having a discussion about it.



best regards,
mike

once again - is this not presumptuous, hypocritical and mean spirited or "impolite" at best?

drewfx1




A few points:

In terms of things like digital amp sims (and also some synths), anytime you create distortion (or certain synth waveforms) you are creating high frequencies which will cause aliasing in digital. But for this reason in the modern world (where CPU power is abundant) any competent programmer upsamples their amp sim/synth plugins internally to avoid this problem. So it's not clear why running at higher rates is of any benefit for modern plugins (assuming whatever "quality" settings they have are set to their highest settings). If it was beneficial to upsample even more, the programmers just should have made an even higher quality setting available. Older plugins may or may not be a different story.

Hi Drew some knowledgeable, relevant good sense as usual.  Regarding the above point though did you read the article by Bootsy I linked which covers this particular subject from his view point?
 
@McQ
 
What are the headroom difference between the interfaces Rain has asked about and how would they affect him in the context of this discussion or in regard to making an informed choice between them?
 
If you don't know I'd suggest you are adding a layer of complicated irrelevance to the discussion by throwing out a cryptic reference to wall warts and creating an idea that there is some doubt as to what he should choose here, when for all practical purposes there isn't.  What's more you should know it, so yep a deserved 'Snark' award yet again. 
Furthermore without some intensive and critical appraisal of your own conduct and interaction with the majority of members on this board I would suggest that you least of all is in a position to judge anyone as being 'mean spirited' and certainly not Beagle. 
 
That IS an area I where could post a list of tangible pros and cons and make a valid choice based on preferred characteristics and here's a clue it wouldn't be for McQ. 
 
As far as headroom goes I would suggest it is very unlikely that you will ever be able to extract yours from where it seems presently to be securely stuck.
 
Even the most lowly in-built Realtek audio codec built in to a cheap motherboard will provide you with headroom to burn for most musical audio production requirements so how is you posing this question 'adding' to this discussion?  What would be the purpose?
 
So we can all be impressed with McQ's ability to skin farts once more?

Rain which models are you looking at for Apogee and Focusrite?

Good question. :-)

I don't understand what the end goal is with all these attacks on Mike lately? And I don't see what he's done that's so bad to warrant the non-stop jabs at him? It's not like he's ever attacked anyone personally that I've been able to find.

If you don't like the guy, just block him, or grow a pair and ask him to leave, but don't keep ruining threads with the attacks on him. If I was Rain, I'd be a bit tweaked right now. This was a good thread.

you're entitled to your opinion Bub.

so is Mike and so am I.

and we all have the right to be here and we all have the right to say what we feel.

I'm sorry the thread has been ruined for you.

It's not like he's ever attacked anyone personally that I've been able to find.

 
There's one clear attack at the top of the page.
 
They aren't hard to find if you care to look there's plenty of 'em.
 
Like you say this was a good thread and was pretty much conclusive, then check the point where it went downhill.