2012/11/30 11:32:42
Bub
Beagle

you're entitled to your opinion Bub.

so is Mike and so am I.

and we all have the right to be here and we all have the right to say what we feel.

I'm sorry the thread has been ruined for you.
Almost everything the guy says lately is followed by someone making a snide comment to him and putting him down personally ... it's something I've never seen happen to any other member here to this frequency. I just don't get it?

I had another sentence in my post and it's not there now? What he heck?

I did have in there, "I grew up and blocked John a while ago rather than go back and forth with him all the time and I think the forum is a much better place for it."

That's really weird that it got deleted, I must have done it ... but uh ... how?

Doo doo doo doo

doo doo doo doo

:)
2012/11/30 11:35:45
Jonbouy
mike_mccue


Good question. :-)
It had already been answered.
 
Suppose you could actually hear real differences between sets of converters in modern interfaces.

How do you then decide which ones are the 'better' ones?


2012/11/30 11:40:21
Jonbouy
Bub
I just don't get it?

I really hope it stays that way for you, meanwhile it might be an idea to think that some of are not just picking at someone for the sake of it and there may be a flame where the smoke comes from.
 
If you are in disagreement with what I said to McQ on this thread then disagree I'm fine with that, but personally his reference to wall warts and outburst following being called out on it is what destroyed any good-will this thread had going for it.  And again we have to ask what was it for, was it relevant to the discussion, was it designed to help the OP in anyway?  Nope.  Not as far as I could tell.
 
The considerations of a power supply contributing to the headroom on an interface will be a choice made by a much more capable engineer than McQ (and likely most every one here) at the interfaces design stage.
 
If he gets that bit wrong the card will be a turkey and no one would touch it, period.  It wouldn't even be in the frame for a discussion. 
2012/11/30 12:09:30
Bub
Jonbouy
Bub
I just don't get it?
I really hope it stays that way for you, meanwhile it might be an idea to think that some of are not just picking at someone for the sake of it and there may be a flame where the smoke comes from.
 
If you are in disagreement with what I said to McQ on this thread then disagree I'm fine with that, but personally his reference to wall warts and outburst following being called out on it is what destroyed any good-will this thread had going for it.  And again we have to ask what was it for, was it relevant to the discussion, was it designed to help the OP in anyway?  Nope.  Not as far as I could tell.
 
The considerations of a power supply contributing to the headroom on an interface will be a choice made by a much more capable engineer than McQ at the interfaces design stage.
 
If he gets that bit wrong the card will be a turkey and no one would touch it, period.
I got what he was saying about the wall wart ... I think. :) It's a converter ... AC-DC (AD-DA) ... you're headroom is the amount of current it can handle before frying (Clipping). Or maybe I didn't get it and that's not the point he was making. *sHrUgS sHoUlDeRs* I took it as an analogy and I didn't take it as being condescending or anything like that.

Something must have happened that I missed that was personal, so I'll just shush up now. I hope everything gets worked out.
2012/11/30 12:12:39
Jonbouy
Bub


Jonbouy
Bub
I just don't get it?
I really hope it stays that way for you, meanwhile it might be an idea to think that some of are not just picking at someone for the sake of it and there may be a flame where the smoke comes from.

If you are in disagreement with what I said to McQ on this thread then disagree I'm fine with that, but personally his reference to wall warts and outburst following being called out on it is what destroyed any good-will this thread had going for it.  And again we have to ask what was it for, was it relevant to the discussion, was it designed to help the OP in anyway?  Nope.  Not as far as I could tell.

The considerations of a power supply contributing to the headroom on an interface will be a choice made by a much more capable engineer than McQ at the interfaces design stage.

If he gets that bit wrong the card will be a turkey and no one would touch it, period.
I got what he was saying about the wall wart ... I think. :) It's a converter ... AC-DC (AD-DA) ... you're headroom is the amount of current it can handle before frying (Clipping). Or maybe I didn't get it and that's not the point he was making. *sHrUgS sHoUlDeRs* I took it as an analogy and I didn't take it as being condescending or anything like that.

Something must have happened that I missed that was personal, so I'll just shush up now. I hope everything gets worked out.


LOL, I'm still courteous to him, whether he makes sense or not.  Even if I think he's being a bull headed pig...
2012/11/30 12:38:54
The Maillard Reaction


Hi Bub,

Sound signals are AC. The gain of the signal is measured in volts. It's an axiom of audio design that higher voltages on rails allow for higher voltage swings on the analog signal path.

So if you take, for example, a AKM brand converter and place it an brandX appliance that is powered by a 12vDC external power supply and compare it to an appliance made by the very same brandX that happens to be powered with a 24vDC internal power supply you have a circumstance where the difference is easily quantifiable.

You can send 12vDc into an appliance and step it up to something that provides more head room... but you'll require more current which is costly... so you don't often see that type of design unless portability and battery operation is a high priority.

Most solid state components used in active audio electronics are easily capable of running between 5vDc to 48vDc. The greatest amount of headroom will be realized when the device has all the voltage it can use but it's a lot cheaper to run the device on lower voltages... especially if you can find an acceptable sweet spot that  people can be satisfied with... so lots of gear is produced with lower voltage designs and narrow ranges of suitability. 

The audio range itself is extremely narrow and limited compared to the spectrum modern electronic devices can work with, how ever it is the low frequency ranges, the ones that sit right in the audio spectrum, that require the most power to maintain accurate representation in reproduction. The easy way to make sure the low frequencies get printed accurately is to make sure there is plenty of power. The most efficient way to deliver power is with a supply of relatively high voltage.

If you want to hear differences in converter appliances listen in the low and mid ranges where the actual hard work is done.


best regards,
mike







2012/11/30 12:48:41
Beagle
Mike is correct that higher rail voltages could restult in more headroom - but changing the wall wart from a 12V to a 24V will not necessarily change the rail voltage.  if the designer of the board has any resonable sense at all, it won't change the rail voltage because of regulators and diodes in the voltage cirucuit and it could possibly fry your board depending on how the voltage section of the board was designed.

I do not recommend that anyone try putting a 24V wallwart on an audio interface designed for 12V.
2012/11/30 12:53:53
The Maillard Reaction


Yeah, me too.

I recommend using an appliance where the designer went to the trouble of designing the appliance to run on the higher voltage.


Or at least auditioning one that has adequate power supply while scrutinizing the character of its low frequency reproduction.



best regards,
mike


2012/11/30 12:55:20
Beagle
at least we can agree on that.
2012/11/30 13:30:36
Starise
 I thought I was upstairs for a minute there  
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