2012/11/22 06:33:17
Jonbouy

Furthermore, many of those small companies probably wouldn't have the financial resources to sell boxed content.
 
Yet they can afford to sell into a market where there stuff is going to be (not might be) re-distributed for free?
 
That doesn't hold water.  Thousands of individuals on eBay sell stuff, they manage to put it in a box and mail it.  I know an old lady round here makes little jewellery items and makes a nice little sum out of it and does her own packaging run every Friday.
 
She can't make her stuff downloadable and wouldn't be silly enough to do so even if she could.
You've said it yourself you'll turn down a DVD for the fact there's no download available and that's exactly why people choose to sell stuff that way.
 
The same with Supermarkets they know without any doubt if the moved all the stuff behind a counter so you have to ask for what you want they'd lose sales so the amount lost to theft and shoplifting by having everything on display is actually factored into to the price YOU pay at the checkout.  Convenience always has a price.
 
If you do anything commercially you have to make it viable, if you can't make it viable in the market conditions that prevail then do something else.  It isn't anymore complicated or emotionally charged than that.
2012/11/22 07:31:02
The Maillard Reaction


"A large collection of taiko drums does not travel. I had to go to them."




I wonder how the folks that actually made the drums feel about having the sounds stolen and sold all over the web by a "samples" company?
2012/11/22 08:54:43
jamesg1213
mike_mccue


"A large collection of taiko drums does not travel. I had to go to them."




I wonder how the folks that actually made the drums feel about having the sounds stolen and sold all over the web by a "samples" company?



Given that a small taiko drum retails at upwards of $1,000, I doubt if they're expecting to sell many to people recording in their spare rooms.
2012/11/22 09:09:57
ProjectM
Jonbouy



Man, that stings my heart to read.

 
Get a grip, the man is hiring halls and lining up a parade of oriental drums to play with.
 
Listen to some of the stories some of your buddies share on this forum if you want real life heartache.
 
I'm not some hippie condoning piracy, I don't condone piracy anymore than I'd condone someone stealing my bike from outside a shop, but I put a lock on it because I know it's likely to get stolen if I don't. I also learned early if something you get something with out working for it it worthless, that is true in my experience.  I've even bought some library off that guy some time back, he ain't thanking me for that he's moaning about theives.
 
They're out there we all know it.
 
You can't expect a return on something you do just because you do it, if you've overlooked the idea that a sample library is prone to be pirated then you are either completely mad or stupid.  That's how it IS and you'd be mad to operate a business without looking at the hazards to your margin realistically.
 
It isn't a moral issue it's a business decision he's making and if he had a half decent accountant on hand he would also tell him not to bother.
 
I'll tell you what, if anyone thinks this is a heart-wrenching story then all I can say is that you must lead very sheltered lives.

So you're implying that I don't care about the real life stories that people share here on the forum - because they never had their software/music/movies/whatever pirated in the digital domain?????? Man, Jon, I thought you knew me a little better than that! That was out of line.
 
But you're not geting my point at all! And let me just say this; comparing software piracy with theft of physical items is not at possible - internet piracy is internet piracy, a totally different issue all together. The major difference being:
 
1: I didn't spend weeks creating that one bike and putting my heart and soul into perfecting it
 
2: The company that did make it made plenty of bikes at the same time and now they will sell a new bike and it will be paid for by the insurance company - probably. Either way, they'll have revenue to create and perfect the next new bike.
 
3: I nor the bike manufacturer, lost any personal value by having it stolen. I loose a couple hours sending in a police report and insurance report, and I'd have to walk home. Guess what, come pay day and nothing will be changed. My house maintain its value, the time I spend at work maintain its value, the work I actually do maintain its value. Of course, it sucks if you're a bike messenger...
 
 
In digital piracy it's often argued that the owner of the product doesn't loose anything - and that's true. The files will still be there and it can still be sold lisences but the value of the product is significantly decreased and more or less removed. Like the article said, why would people buy it when it's freely available on the net? In the end, when you buy a software product, all you really pay for is the support.
 
Now here's the thing; you pour your heart and soul into something, you perfect it to your standards, like a master chef does to his dishes, like a painter does to his paintings, like a carpenter does to the stair case he put up in your house but because it's digital you aren't alowed to protect it?
 
So here's the deal, I make something, many people like it and want to be able to use it/listen to it/watch it. I spend countless hours and dollars making this available to everyone. I'm hoping to at least get something back for the effort so I can afford to set aside the time to set more of my ideas into life and pass it on to them. Sure, anyone can create a turkey and experience that what they made didn't at all gel with the masses - and that's fine, it happens. There's the first calculated risk. The second being that yes, it will probably land on a pirate site - but that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt whoever was behind creating it in the first place. Which, by the way, was my entire point.
 
I used to think like you Jonbouy and have probably given that pad lock on my bike example at some point. But unless you have actually experienced the impact of having your stuff pirated, especially when you're a beginner in the biz of choice, you won't see it from the other side. That's why I usually stay out of piracy debates because quite honestly, very few people know both sides first hand. And those creating the content are usually outnumbered by the people who defend or marginalize piracy and are more or less "threatened" to silence on the subject. Besides, who wan't to make them selves more unpopular by taking a stand against something so many harvest the benefits of, a world of cool stuff for free, when they actually want as many as possible to have it?
 
I'll be keeping my bike to my self.
 
Do we have to accept piracy? Sure. It's there and I don't think we'll see it go away, even if there are great legal alternatives to pretty much all of it. People won't change.
 
But I don't have to LIKE it!
 
I still feel the sting when I see that pirates "thank me" for the great job by wanting a copy but don't appreciate the work it took to bring it to them. The article explained this from a creators point of view really well. And keep in mind, when someone loose their homes to fire and pour their hearts out here, I find that extremely sad too, most likely even more so, so don't make assumptions about me living a "sheltered" and "non caring" life, dude, just because I think piracy is BS!!
 
 
 
Anyway, I've said what I have to say.
2012/11/22 09:33:10
Bub
If I were in this guys position ... I'd start my own file sharing service and divvy up the moneys to everyone that had their stuff stolen after I got my cut ... if I was as passionate about it as he claims.

Or ... maybe he should lower the price on his product? Hell, he could sell it for $2 bucks according to his math and be way ahead of the game.

I'm not saying any of this to condone stealing anything ... you're going to have that no matter what ... but maybe he'd capture some more revenue if he made his products available to a wider consumer base, or got a little more creative with ways to capture the revenue that is being spent on the product?
2012/11/22 10:00:38
Jonbouy

So you're implying that I don't care about the real life stories that people share here on the forum - because they never had their software/music/movies/whatever pirated in the digital domain?????? Man, Jon, I thought you knew me a little better than that! That was out of line.

 
No you said the story made your heart sting.  Your words not mine.
 
Frankly I don't think as a sob story it has any weight whatsoever.  I think if anyone's heart stings over that story they haven't got a foot in the REAL world.
 
Just because you pour your heart and soul into something it's a hard fact of life that it doesn't entitle you to a financial return.
 
There was two old ladies in my family one of them his dead now the other one is in her nineties, they run a dairy farm their entire lives, they had to cull their herd a couple of times due to diseases and ended up finally giving up after the supermarkets fixed the prices they could get for their product. 40 or so acres up to 500 cattle for 60 years and however much devotion that took and they ended up on a state pension where they couldn't even heat their home in the winter.  Life doesn't issue guarantees to anyone.
 
You tell me this guy has it hard to the point where your heart stings I maintain you need a sanity check.
 
I've not once gone into the rights or wrongs of piracy or even bothered to work out who the villains of the piece really are all I'm saying is that this guy needs some basic business training.  You release stuff on the internet it gets pirated, you either live with that fact and make your commercial venture work within the reality that exists whether anyone likes it or not or you do something else.
 
There never seems to be a shortage of people lining up to produce soundware or plug-ins so someone somewhere is full of BS.  Many people would like to have a job where the can sit at home and produce songs or sample libraries rather than go out and do something that pays, most people have to roll up their sleeves and get dirty doing something else instead.
 
If you can make it pay then kudos to you if you can't find something else to do.
 
 
2012/11/22 10:04:38
ProjectM
Bub


If I were in this guys position ... I'd start my own file sharing service and divvy up the moneys to everyone that had their stuff stolen after I got my cut ... if I was as passionate about it as he claims.

Or ... maybe he should lower the price on his product? Hell, he could sell it for $2 bucks according to his math and be way ahead of the game.

I'm not saying any of this to condone stealing anything ... you're going to have that no matter what ... but maybe he'd capture some more revenue if he made his products available to a wider consumer base, or got a little more creative with ways to capture the revenue that is being spent on the product?


Well, that's a good point Bub. You see the prices of software is decreasing rapidly and we can expect it among other things are a consequence of the piracy. Lower production costs and developement time is a major factor as well. The consequence of course, being that developement time may eventually suffer

But I agree. Even as oposed to piracy as I am, there should probably be some shift in the way things are dealt with when it comes to software and digital content. There's always the dongle
2012/11/22 10:06:42
ProjectM
Jonbouy



So you're implying that I don't care about the real life stories that people share here on the forum - because they never had their software/music/movies/whatever pirated in the digital domain?????? Man, Jon, I thought you knew me a little better than that! That was out of line.

 
No you said the story made your heart sting.  Your words not mine.
 
Frankly I don't think as a sob story it has any weight whatsoever.  I think if anyone's heart stings over that story hasn't got a foot in the REAL world.
 
Just because you pour your heart and soul into something it's a hard fact of life that it doesn't entitle you to a financial return.
 
There was two old ladies in my family one of them his dead now the other one is in her nineties, they run a dairy farm their entire lives, they had to cull their herd a couple of times due to diseases and ended up finally giving up after the supermarkets fixed the prices they could get for their product. 40 or so acres up to 500 cattle for 60 years and however much devotion that took and they ended up on a state pension where they couldn't even heat their home in the winter.  Life doesn't issue guarantees to anyone.
 
You tell me this guy has it hard to the point where your heart stings I maintain you need a sanity check.
 
I've not once gone into the rights or wrongs of piracy or even bothered to work out who the villains of the piece really are all I'm saying is that this guy needs some basic business training.  You release stuff on the internet it gets pirated, you either live with that fact and make your commercial venture work within the reality that exists whether anyone likes it or not or you do something else.
 
There never seems to be a shortage of people lining up to produce soundware or plug-ins so someone somewhere is full of BS.  Many people would like to have a job where the can sit at home and produce songs or sample libraries rather than go out and do something that pays, most people have to roll up their sleeves and get dirty doing something else instead.
 
If you can make it pay then kudos to you if you can't find something else to do.
 
 

Man, I feel this gets seriously besides the point here man. Just let it go....
 
Original post edited btw since it seemed to take so much focus out of the message...
 
 
Whatever
2012/11/22 10:19:16
Jonbouy
ProjectM


Man, I feel this gets seriously besides the point here man. Just let it go....
 
Original post edited btw since it seemed to take so much focus out of the message...
 
 
Whatever
I'm putting an opinion forward.  You are the one that put your 'heart' into it and clouded into an emotional issue.
 
I don't mind if you don't agree with my POV at all.  I don't actually disagree with yours but even if I did I realise you are entitled to it and wouldn't think any less of you for it or think you were 'out of line' for having it.
 
Mind you with this story and the publicity it seems to have created, if this guy has managed to garner enough mugs to shell out for his library and to become loyal paying customers in future as a result I've got to take my hat off to him.  It could be the marketing move of the century.
 
Sadly, I don't need a Taiko library just now even if it were free.
2012/11/22 10:36:38
djwayne
oh boo hoo hoo, record excutives aren't making enough money and the public is ripping them off....boo hoo hoo, did you know one of the top record producers David Geffen has a net worth of 5.6 billion dollars.  I'm really sick of these rich record companies belly aching about "lost 'revenues....
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