Jonbouy

ProjectM

Man, I feel this gets seriously besides the point here man. Just let it go....
 
Original post edited btw since it seemed to take so much focus out of the message...
 
 
Whatever

I'm putting an opinion forward.  You are the one that put your 'heart' into it and clouded into an emotional issue.
 
I don't mind if you don't agree with my POV at all.  I don't actually disagree with yours but even if I did I realise you are entitled to it and wouldn't think any less of you for it or think you were 'out of line' for having it.
 
Mind you with this story and the publicity it seems to have created, if this guy has managed to garner enough mugs to shell out for his library and to become loyal paying customers in future as a result I've got to take my hat off to him.  It could be the marketing move of the century.
 
Sadly, I don't need a Taiko library just now even if it were free.

Jonbouy, I have always enjoyed our encounters here on the forum and I seriously don't mind that our opinions differ on this. There's a middle ground somewhere and any discussion on this should be healthy for the biz and all of us. But that needs that opinions and facts from both side of the table is taken into consideration.
 
But being accused of not caring for the right things and needing a sainty check - hell yeah, I take that personally. And you keep at it!
 
Perhaps I used the wrong expression there - then I guess I should appologize(?) - but you base your argument towards me, based on semantics instead of looking at the content of my message whcih was given in relation to the article. On either side of an argument, there's room to look at the other side. Sheesh, relax a little my friend. I have no idea what I've said or done to you to have you go off like bull infront of the red blanket.
 
I have no problems with your opinion on this. I simply stated that I hate piracy and why, and that I feel for the guy based on my own experience. The personal attacks are unnecessary.

I'm sorry M but if you can see any personal attacks on you among what I have written then I will gladly retract them, but I've read through the thread a couple of times now and can't find any.

I'd support the anti-piracy movement more if it benefited the artists in any way. As it is it's merely there to provide a way for lawyers and record execs to extort even more money from music lovers. Instead of keeping up with the times and adapting to new technologies they are trying cling to an outdated business model. If they had focused their efforts toward online distribution they'd have a much healthier bottom line without antagonizing their customer base and criminalizing otherwise law abiding citizens. It also puts unnecessary strain on a judicial system that is already stretched to the limits and should be focusing on real criminals. It's the same old song and dance. Rich, slothful dinosaurs can't be bothered to invest in new ideas so they use their power and money to lobby governments into crushing up and comers. Remember the hubbub about VCRs back in the 80's? Seems a little silly now doesn't it? It didn't kill Hollywood. It made it stronger and created an entirely new way for them to sell their product. The people that support the heavy handed approach being taken to this issue are usually the same folks who will scream "FREE MARKET" when anyone dares to try and implement rules to stop corruption, consumer abuses and environmental catastrophes. The hypocrisy boggles the mind.

Adapt or die. 

I read he didn't use any protection....and stated it wouldn't have helped.
IMO that's not the problem and shouldn't be an issue.

I may or may not offend some but one of my things, above many others, is about stealing.
Any form of it is as low as one can go.

Where I work there are many people. One can leave a dollar on a table and it will be there
until the one that left it gets it back.
NOBODY I know can tolerate a person that would steal a dime.
For the sake of thieves I can assure everyone that since "we" aren't the ones to determine
the punishment, should one be caught....you have more to be thankful on this day than you
can possibly imagine.

And what does the monetary worth of a victim have to do with what's right or wrong with stealing? NOTHING.

"I don't condone piracy anymore than I'd condone someone stealing my bike from outside a shop, but I put a lock on it because I know it's likely to get stolen if I don't. I also learned early if something you get something with out working for it it worthless, that is true in my experience."


So this theoretical bicycle Jonbouy- if it gets pinched it is worthless to the person who stole it. What about the person who it was stolen from? Worthless I suppose.

I agree on the stealing being bad thing however I guess in this particular scenario I fall into a gray area. I don't download anything per se in the sense I don't torrent/seed but I do take advantage of a lot of streaming stuff, mostly on youtube but I do stream some tv shows elsewhere. Now that isn't exactly legal BUT this house pays a ridiculous amount for cable TV which I have access to. So they are technically getting their money anyway. By me not watching the commercials does that effect their revenue? I can't afford to nor have any interest in buying the crap they sling on the boobtube anyway.

Then there is all the music I listen to on youtube. That I kind of feel bad about but a lot of the time it's uploaded by the artists themselves and I truly do not have the cash to invest in my large and varied tastes which are constantly evolving. As a musician though I need access to that stuff for resource, education and inspiration. Back when I did actually have some money though I would buy stuff I really liked. The quality is better and it's just nice to have a hard copy and if I ever end up having disposable income again I will go back to that behavior. Without having a chance to hear those tunes though I might not be inclined to make the purchase because many times I never would have even heard the material or even of the artist.

When I get rolling again as far as releasing music I will be completely limited to promoting and distributing online... at least at first. I don't want to just have people stealing my stuff and I get left with nothing but at the same time the more my music gets around the more likely the honest and benevolent music lovers will purchase it.

IDK... piracy is bad but the turmoil and vitriol surrounding it is really overblown and unnecessary IMO. If everyone stopped bickering and suing each other we could build up a healthy industry based around the way people consume music in the modern age using the absolutely amazing technology and resources that are at our disposal.

Cheers.

Rain
I remember getting in touch w/ the owners of a Russian fan site dedicated to my wife, politely asking them to cease distributing her material for free. They had everything she'd ever recorded, even the most obscure stuff, all freely available. They never even replied and the site is still up and running. 

ProjectM 
I've had a couple albums pirated, 6 months of work next to our day jobs not including the song writing, thousands of dollars for studio rental/equipment and mix and master services, time and money spent on promotion, getting labels involved, getting agents involved, loads of paper work, less time with friends and family, less time spent catching up on much needed rest and leisure time and so forth... 


The sales stoped over night,litterarly, when they hit the pirate sites. We still owe money on one of the records and we can see on a couple of sites that it has been downloaded several thousands of times. 


Whatever hippie free the world destroy the capitalistic industry nonsense these bastards argue with, it doesn't take away the feeling of having your gut ripped out. Sure, it is to be expected that your stuff gets pirated and thankfully we get paid to play live so we don't face bankruptcy from doing this... Live shows and day jobs, that keeps us going. I have more than once asked my self if I can handle this kind of stuff though. At one point I quit playing music and started composing it for the money. 


The worst part is when telling stories like tese to a proud pirate, they always counter when they're out of arguments: The people who downloaded your music probably wouldn't pay for it anyway so your music can't be that good. 


Well, pirates are narrow minded bastards and I want to shoot them where it hurts! But what can be done?


The lack of respect amazes me! 


And how shortsighted and selfish! 


I could go on for hours about this. Sorry for the rant! 

@ Rain and ProjectM, 

Sorry to hear :( 

I find true statements such as the above unsettling (very sad) and is why I believe that piracy is indeed part of the problem; as I said in my earlier post about legendary bands splitting up and others going bankrupt!

Be it CD or download either way piracy does indeed occur and of course that in itself effects artists/writers who are lucky enough to make a profit, some still owe, others go bankrupt (it's true) and it's more unsettling that there are people who simply don't care or don't fully understand or who are simply very selfish and narrow minded; for crying out loud one song only cost $1... but furthermore the artists/writers get only a small cut (share) of that!! 


     Listen up everyone

Discussions like these are sensitive, it can really stir the emotions in some of us, I guess words are likely to get mess-up (not explained well) grammar and spelling errors and/or then misconstrued completely because of the sheer nature of such a very sensitive topic. 

That said; Please try and be a little more understanding, open-minded, don't take every word so dang literally and please try to keep the peace.  If you offend a friend here surely it's not too difficult to apologize. 

I feel for people like Rain and ProjectM because I know others (exceptionally talented signed writers/musicians) who you think would be financially successful and retired by now given the numerous credits they achieved (music awards) but in fact are effected very badly, some of them turned to hard drugs, gone bankrupt, lost everything and others committed suicide. :( 

No doubt it takes more than talent to be a 'real' success and it's the consensus that the music business is ruthless (corrupted) as explained in my earlier post (loopholes in the laws).  I'm not putting blame on labels alone and not all are that bad; point is; there is much more to this very complex beast (music business) that would fill 2000+ pages (too much to discuss here)! Now on top of that you have so-called music fans not willing to part with just $1 for their favorite songs; if people don't like the song they simply won't wast time or take the risk of downloading it from some warez/torrent site... 

.... fact is; people have a fair idea that downloading from warez/torrent sites is illegal - when they hear a song they love on the radio or TV guess what?... for a lot of people will first-up search the Internet to see if they can get it for free rather than pay.  Honestly I was silly to think that the Internet leveled the playing field but instead it has become a superhighway of corruption that allows criminal activities to flourish even-more!  Sorry to say; that is the reality! IMO! 

Again; sorry for the rant :-( 

Spacey: I may or may not offend some but one of my things, above many others, is about stealing. Any form of it is as low as one can go. 


Totally agree! 

jamesg1213

mike_mccue


"A large collection of taiko drums does not travel. I had to go to them."




I wonder how the folks that actually made the drums feel about having the sounds stolen and sold all over the web by a "samples" company?

Given that a small taiko drum retails at upwards of $1,000, I doubt if they're expecting to sell many to people recording in their spare rooms.

I just found a warez site that let me download an actual Taiko drum!!!  (Want the link?)

backwoods


"I don't condone piracy anymore than I'd condone someone stealing my bike from outside a shop, but I put a lock on it because I know it's likely to get stolen if I don't. I also learned early if something you get something with out working for it it worthless, that is true in my experience."


So this theoretical bicycle Jonbouy- if it gets pinched it is worthless to the person who stole it. What about the person who it was stolen from? Worthless I suppose.

Did you have to work hard on missing that point?
 
They are two seperate sentences as denoted by a full stop at the end of the first one.
 
Sure stealing is wrong and not something I personally get involved with as anything 'gained' by it has no value IMO, but given that if I don't put a lock on my bicycle when I park it somewhere it's highly likely it will get stolen so I'd be silly not to.
 
Can you get your head around that complicated idea now?