2017/10/17 21:33:46
Jeff Evans
They are doing something today called cinematic dialogue mixes.  It is the latest thing.  Not so much in the music and FX area but dialogue.  And it is happening on TV as well.  The question I have is can you hear the dialogue?  What they are into now which is horrible in my opinion is dialogue drifting from so soft you cannot hear it to just audible.  They are getting too smart and clever and dynamic with the dialogue levels these days and yes the music and FX are starting to get over the top and out of balance with the dialogue in general. 
 
Back in the day when I was learning post production it was all about keeping the dialogue clear and at a very constant level e.g. 85 dB SPL.  The other stuff could move around that but the dialog was sacred. Not so much now. They are messing with it a bit and I am not a fan.
 
I am going next week to see it as well.  Some theatres around here have had the overall volume too soft in my opinion and that is worse I think. 
2017/10/18 01:34:03
craigb
synkrotron
I'll more than likely add it to my collection, even though it wasn't as good as the original... Are they ever?
 



Some, like Road Warrior, were far superior than their originals.  Heck, most people didn't even know there was a movie before Road Warrior (i.e., Mad Max)!
2017/10/18 04:08:32
2:43AM
craigb
Some, like Road Warrior, were far superior than their originals.  Heck, most people didn't even know there was a movie before Road Warrior (i.e., Mad Max)!




"Good one!  Mad Max was harrible!"
2017/10/18 04:28:40
2:43AM
bitflipper
The volume was too loud in the theater I saw it in, too. Not to the point of distortion, but certainly above the sweet spot. Given that theater systems are calibrated, I'm assuming the hot mix was intentional.
 
It probably wasn't Hans Zimmer's idea; the most painful parts were low-frequency sound effects. In contrast, one complaint I had about Wonder Woman was the music wasn't up enough in the mix. It would seem Herr Zimmer has little influence over the mixing process.
 
And to be fair to Hans, he was brought in very late in the game, just six weeks before the film's release and after most of the music had already been composed and recorded. The official credits don't even mention the original composer, but I've read that a total of four composers contributed music.
 
They could have saved a lot of time and money - and kept true to the original - by just hiring Vangelis to start with.
 
The list of audio engineers is long enough to form two or three softball teams. While both of the mixers named have extensive filmographies, few of their past projects stand out for sound (Kung Fu Panda 3, Monster Trucks). One of them does list Apocalypse Now among his credits, but that was a long time ago and back then he was probably the intern who brought coffee.



Good info and a good read, Bit!  Definitely the mix at my local theater was super hot...a real cone scorcher!!!  Like I said before, it distorted the vocals at a certain part...no question about it.  I also totally agree with Hollywood's current love affair with low frequencies.  I think it all started with the first Transformers movie, as I believe that the first instance of the now-hackneyed "bass drop" occurred in said film.  Therefore, we've had a decade of bass-filled garbage ever since!
 
Basically, the BR2049 soundtrack would be good if the bottom end was cleaned up.  For giggles, I took one of the tracks off YouTube and remastered it quickly in Ozone 6--some EQ cuts, a little bass compression, narrowed the bass width (which was wide as heck), and added a little sparkle with Baxandall on the highs.  I could have cut the bass more, but the result?  Though I couldn't scrap the subharmonic mud, it actually did sound much better and tighter.  Better mid/high's cutting through the mix and it didn't sound like it was going to tear my speakers apart!
 
Good point about Vangelis.  I will have to do a little online research to find out if he was even offered the job.  Perhaps not as he's been out of the game for too long?  Whether it was Vangelis or someone else, I'm sure it would have been done better.  In fact, I can think of a couple of electronic musicians that I frequently listen to who would absolutely do a phenomenal job with BR2049's soundtrack if they had a chance.
2017/10/19 07:38:23
flyinghitcher
I was sure the movie theatre had the volume too loud, I have since listened to the OST.. It's a distorted mess as well. Shame it's a black mark on Hans Zimmer for me. He should stick to Pirate movies and Gladiator.
 
2017/10/19 15:32:07
henkejs
Saw Blade Runner yesterday. After reading comments here about the volume, I took my band rehearsal earplugs with me. I agree with previous commenters, the low frequency stuff was overwhelming even with earplugs in. Then during the occasional quiet dialog scenes, I had to take the earplugs out to hear the dialog. I'm not sure who originally thought this kind of sound design was a good idea, but the trailers shown before the main feature confirm the notion that this is the accepted practice these days.
2017/10/25 17:37:08
Jeff Evans
Well I saw it the other day.  In a morning session with very few in the theatre.  Got to say yes I think there was some cinematic effects levels going on.  Dialogue was clear and at a good volume for me. Music at extraordinary volumes too at times.  But in my case zero distortion anywhere in the sound system. (whoopee) The speakers breezed through this as clean as anything. They must have been decent to deliver this level of volume so perfectly that is all I can say. I think when you hear it like this then it is going to have a different response in you. 
 
Musically I think it was cool and interesting and I did like it.  Not so melodic or beautiful like the first Vangelis score but a harder edged heavier feel and they got it for sure.  Zimmer was more than likely involved with the drum grooves and there were plenty of cinematic tom grooves in this one. Not sure about the raspy heavy distorted sounds they are dropping in.  (e.g. the giant ship fog horn like sounds that sound like they are 3" from your ear!)  It is a very different soundtrack.  It is still very underscore like with no memorable melodies.  No one is actually writing anything!  Makes me want to see the first one again now. Vangelis has a super epic like gifted melodic sense and he uses it all the time on the original score. (So does Zimmer but it is not so present here though) 
 
Story wise I think it was more laid back overall than the original. They seem to have continued on some ideas quite well leaving it open at the end. It is still very different to the original though.  The original had a certain magic that is present all the time. This movie captures that magic on an off for me. 
2017/10/25 19:01:38
Moshkito
bitflipper
... The market for intellectually-engaging sci-fi seems to have disappeared.
...

I'm in the same boat. The movie was not satisfying and I'm even debating not bothering writing a review ... just another action/adventure formula movie with an incidental story, they could not really make satisfying, regardless. I thought that Decker's incredulous looks were for how much money he made for not doing or saying much of anything. The only/best line he has in the movie is about the dog! "I don't know. Ask him!"
 
That's exactly how I feel about the movie ... or the other example ... "she had green eyes" and walks away ... shoot it down ... just like the sequel. No class or appreciation for the romantic and really incredible imagery and sense of life, that the original had ... this one was devoid of life. PERIOD.
 
Btw, Flipper, I've heard better sound in the old Pink Floyd's Quadraphonic Sound, in Tangerine Dream concerts and in the original Star Wars, from which all those movies are STILL, trying to sound half as good. Even the music had no soul, and it was only used just like all the movies in Hollywood, and the original, was NOT about a Hollywood film at all ... I would almost say it was a big finger to Hollywood! 
 
BR2049 is one of the worst sequels of any movie I have ever seen ... but then, my taste is hard for many of you to appreciate ... mine is 2 Claude Berri films ... Jean de Florette and then Manon of the Spring ... and if you have never seen these two films, the ending will just blow your mind to smithereens ... and both films are incredible. No Hollyweird film even comes close!
2017/10/25 19:18:37
Moshkito
bitflipper
...
They could have saved a lot of time and money - and kept true to the original - by just hiring Vangelis to start with.
...



And Vangelis would have turned it down. He's not very good at "repeating himself" even to the point of not wanting to do concerts, although this is mostly because he does not fly to locations. So he has said.
 
Ridley Scott knows how to use music, and did it again in "Legend". Hans Zimmer was brought in because he had already worked with Ridley Scott ... however, I think that he came in much too late, as suggested, to be able to do anything with the soundtrack, and the movie was already shot, and more than likely, none of the directing and filming would be able to use the music and choreograph some visual sequences off it, like some moments were done in the original.
 
The biggest problem is that the director of the film does not know how to use MUSIC, and just phones it in (as you say), to accentuate the transitions in the story and dialogue ... the majority of the music and its use in this film would get a D from me, for lack of originality and "standard" use, instead of any originality all around.
 
Btw, just because it is loud and has some reverb or effect on the sound, does not make it great! Even those effects were in-necessary most of the time, and all they did was try to make the film more "out there" than it would normally be. As it is, it was just a waste of money and budget to create something that had no soul in the first place, and were just another terminator movie, or another diesel film. 
 
End of story ... if my name was Phillip K. Dick, I would have put out a comment that I disown any connection to the original and want to have nothing to do with the bad copy and lousy writing in the film.
 
 
2017/10/25 19:22:12
jamesg1213
I thought it was as good a sequel as it could have been, obviously made with love and respect to the original, whist having the bravery to go somewhere else with the story. The visuals were breathtaking. Really enjoyed it.
© 2026 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1

Use My Existing Forum Account

Use My Social Media Account