^^^ Agree wholeheartedly Tim. There are many ways to be creative with loops, and honestly, I've yet to hear anyone put together a whole song using stock loops, and have any kind of success with it. I think it's an imaginary demon people can't help but conjure up.

Just for example only, I am SHAMELESSLY plugging 2 of my recent songs here to demonstrate use of loops:  (don't hate me..LOL)

1-  NOTHING BUT LOOPS: "The X2 Add'l Content Song"... : 
http://soundcloud.com/tbosco/the-x2-additional-content-song

(try to get past the 1st minute...there are different styles..note 2:52 and past.)


2-  CREATIVE (MUSICAL) USE OF LOOPS- Can you find the loops?...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAoMuoPpsl4&feature=plcp

(There are Sonar loops and some from my own collection in this song) 

And I still haven't figured out how to slice and dice them up to use them even more creatively.

Again, I say they are just more tools in the toolbox, but I do believe just because you own a hammer and a saw doesn't make you a carpenter.

Peace, out!

Bub

What is new is how someone else is doing the work now, and that work is being bundled and sold (or given away in this case), and someone else will piece together a song with those loops without ever touching an actual instrument. There's nothing wrong with that, but please, don't call yourself a musician, it's kind of offensive to those of us who actually are.

IMHO.

Bub, your opinion and bias is noted, but fyi that is a narrow perspective that i suggest is out of date as wiki does in fact include such folks as musicians...
 
A musician usually plays a musical instrument, especially (although not necessarily) as a profession.[1] Musicians can be classified by their roles in performing music and writing music. A person who makes music a profession, anyone (professional or not) who's skilled in making music or performing music creatively, or one who composes, conducts, or performs music (especially instrumental music) is a musician.[2]
Musicians can be of any music style not limited to classical, orchestral or choral, and musicians can have skills in many different styles outside of their professional experience. Examples of musicians' skills are the orchestration of music, improvisation, conducting, singing, composing, arranging, and/or being an instrumentalist.[3]

 I agree  that technically they are musicians, the Bub definition though is the one most shared by other musicians who play instruments. I don't think this is any kind of condesention,more of an acknowledghement that probably comes from the history of the subject and the blood sweat and tears put into learning to play as opposed to arranging.

 There was just an intersting article on this subject in the latest issue of EM. DJs want the same labels as instrumentalists/bands. No doubt it takes a lot of skill to DJ and arrange as well. I see them as a seperate thing, IMO probably musically inclined but I think there should be a difference .......but what do I know? I don't see those guys who play giving the same credence to someone who plays and arranges loops. A good example of what something is in a text book and how others actually define it. If thats all I did I don't think I would want to be called a musician.

well, it's definitely more fun, and rewarding, to play your own parts, rather then cutting and pasting them.

at least for me, it is.

i do use 'loops' (actually, midi clips) when building drum tracks in superior drummer, but i always deeply edit them to make them personal.

so, i cannot say that i'm a purist.

i DO use live drums whenever possible.....this is always preferable.
and i do like the idea of using loops as a writing tool, and the occasional 'Track-Guest star' for the odd sounds here and there..



but i have found that (in particular) 'FREE' loops, typically are very basic, are just plain weird, and do not have such good feel.

i think creating your own loops, taking the time to program them and give them a unique feel, should be the goal of loop users.

I play piano/keyboards and I sing.

I pretend to dabble at bass and acoustic but I cannot play either well enough to record even small portions.

so I can't play bass, any guitar, drums, or any other instrument except piano/keyboards and vocals.

so I often use Band in a Box for instruments I can't play.  essentually, that's the same thing as using loops for those instruments.

I consider myself a musician, albiet a poor one.

what you consider me is not really of much consequence to me.  it's just a label.

Beagle

spacey


The problem is "beefs with the loops".....if you had becan with the loops everything
would be fine.

give that man a becan award!
 
(but not any real becan, cause that's mine...)

Watch it Beagle....I left a breakfast burrito and holiday pie around here earlier and it's gone.
I would never had guessed that we were going to be facing these kind of issues....there's not
much I can do about the age issue but I can sure turn my hat around and mumble a few hairy cush or whatever words...I'll have to read that part again.
 
I have to go look for the dude....probably gathering firewood to warm up my burrito...probably have
an axe or sumpin'....I throw some bad loops at him if I have to.

spacey

Beagle

spacey


The problem is "beefs with the loops".....if you had becan with the loops everything
would be fine.

give that man a becan award!
 
(but not any real becan, cause that's mine...)

Watch it Beagle....I left a breakfast burrito and holiday pie around here earlier and it's gone.
I would never had guessed that we were going to be facing these kind of issues....there's not
much I can do about the age issue but I can sure turn my hat around and mumble a few hairy cush or whatever words...I'll have to read that part again.
 
I have to go look for the dude....probably gathering firewood to warm up my burrito...probably have
an axe or sumpin'....I throw some bad loops at him if I have to.

I find loops inspirational sometimes. This was written and recorded in a very short time just from playing and jamming to a loop........

Shameless plug---> The Clown

The drum loop is virtually untouched.

Karl-  I can do shameless..  LOL   Hey, that drum loop reminds me of Janet Jackson I think.  ???