57Gregy

davdud101


So true. I-IV-V is pretty standard, I could honestly name a bunch of songs off the top of my head that follow it, several of my own included. Any specific variations/deviations you could give me on that?

There was a thread here awhile back about chord substitution. Where you may have gone to D in every other verse/chorus but next time through, change it to F#m or Bm. C to Am, G to Em, etc.
At least that's what I thought the OP meant.

About  15 years ago I wrote a program for guitar players (on the Amiga!) which among lots of other things, had a note analyzer. You could pick notes on the fretboard and it would tell you what chords those notes matched completely, what chords those notes were part of, and what chords were contained in those notes. It was really useful for getting ideas on chord substitutions. So for instance if you showed it a D chord, it would tell you that those notes were contained in Bm7, E11, Gmaj9 etc. Or conversely, if you showed it a G9, it would tell you that a Dmin is in there (among other things). You could thus use it to ****e up a simple chord progression, or alternatively to simplify a complicated chord progression (also useful for bass players). 


I'm pretty sure there must be a zillion apps out there by now that do exactly the same thing (and more). A person wanting to expand their knowledge of chord progressions could really learn a lot from them. 


By the way, the word that's censored above is "s p i c e." It seems the language filter on this forum is extremely ham fisted!

I-IV-V is so over used.  How come you rarely hear about others like L-C-M?  Yeah...

Don't learn chord progressions, learn chord functions.

This guy is probably one of the best teachers out there, has tons of videos on theory, all free, here's the ones on chords:

http://www.piano-play-it.com/piano-chords.html

This guy has a new take on the circle of fifths, making it easy to find chords and progressions, you never knew how valuable the circle of fifths could be before you get this.

http://www.lotusmusic.com/circle-of-fifths.html

Find a bunch of songs you like, and write down the song structure, now you have a bunch of new structures to build your own stuff from.

You'll probably find that most popular songs uses common structures, this is because your listeners can anticipate what's going to happen and people like that, this is why blues is popular with just about anyone.

Lastly, I'd advice learning major, natural minor, harmonic minor and melodic minor (in that order) in all 12 keys of an octave until you know them in your sleep, sounds like a tall order but with a couple hours a day it shouldn't take more than a month tops. The freedom you get from this allows you to run though chords to come up with progressions very fast because you don't have to think about it anymore.

BTW the censored word is not s p i c e - remove the e and you'll see why it's censored, still shouldn't be censored when it's part of another word though.

Kenneth


Lastly, I'd advice learning major, natural minor, harmonic minor and melodic minor (in that order) in all 12 keys of an octave until you know them in your sleep, sounds like a tall order but with a couple hours a day it shouldn't take more than a month tops. The freedom you get from this allows you to run though chords to come up with progressions very fast because you don't have to think about it anymore.

This is from the guitarist (Ernie Denov) for the Lt. Dan Band (Gary Sinese's band - from Forest Gump, CSI: NY, et. al.):
 

There's really only FIVE scales you'll ever need to know to be able to play over just about any jazz tune or "standard":
Major, Harmonic Minor, Melodic Minor, Whole Tone (all whole steps) and Diminished (half step, whole step, half step, whole step, etc.). When you think about it, how hard is THAT?! Five scales, THAT'S IT! Of course, you'll want to know their modes (for the first three anyway; the whole tone and diminished scales are completely symetrical and sound the same no matter where you start them) and be able to play them in all keys. Pentatonic scales are just partial scales; they're contained within those first three. And of course, the most popular, commonly used pentatonics (major and minor) come from the major scale. The one scale I didn't mention at all is the "blues scale," but to me, it's just a pentatonic with one extra note (C, Eb, F, F#, G, Bb), which I consider to be a chromatic embelishment.

Sounds similar to what you're promoting.  I'll be checking out your links later, but can you expand on what you're suggesting to be learned?  I read it as learning the scales but, since we're talking about chords and chord progressions, how are you implying we get from one to the other?

Knowing the scale steps just allows you to "see" all the keys you can build chords on from whatever note you start with, you just start seeing patterns instead of thinking intervals, you become a chord machine that can just spew out chords in any key.

That's the main reason I mentioned this, it really took me to another level and I was kicking myself that I didn't learn them much sooner, it really wasn't that hard, pretty easy in fact, just takes time and patience.

Something magical also happens where you start to be able to see and hear the intervals that makes up scales, all of a sudden you can mix up your own scales that are mixes between others, you know the sound of the scales so you can pick one that has the sound/feeling you want at any point.

Learning other scales from then on becomes easy because you can relate them to a scale you know and just see what steps are raised for example.

It's great to learn both for chords and soloing, any chord you pick and you can solo over it in all the steps of the scale.

  Oh btw, I love Gary Sinise, been one of my favorite actors since I saw him in Stephen King's The Stand, still his best role imo. 

davdud101


So true. I-IV-V is pretty standard, I could honestly name a bunch of songs off the top of my head that follow it, several of my own included. Any specific variations/deviations you could give me on that?

Yes and no. I don't have time to explain it all, not that I even know enough to do so compared to some of the folks here who have forgotten more music theory than I will ever know...... 


Basic rules I apply when searching for chords to use outside of the normal 1,4,5.  


Learn the harmonic minors:  In the key of C for example, Am (Bapu's favorite chord BTW) is the harmonic minor to C.  You can easily throw in the Am chord where you play the C maj chord. Not always but in many cases. 


With all major and minor chord voices, you should learn and use the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th variations of the root chord and also the 9th 11th and 13th.  Each one of those variations has a different color and sound to them. Some stand alone, and some of them scream to be resolved. Resolving a chord simply means it doesn't sound complete or finished and wants to go somewhere else to be "home". Usually to the root chord of the key. 

I use 6ths and 7ths in Maj & minor all the time. They are essential.

Happy accidents.... every now and then, as I'm playing, and not really thinking...kind of in a Zen moment..... I will grab the "wrong chord" and it just works. 


The more theory you learn the more naturally it will come to coming up with colorful inversions and chords.  


Look on Youtube.... for jazz musicians who are playing the instrument you have as your strongest instrument currently.....the jazz players, probably more than anyone else use all of the colorful chord variations and inversions and you can learn much from them. 


If guitar is your instrument, buy one of those chord books..... the ones that say "The Only Chord Book You Will Ever Need" or "7500 Essential Chords for Guitar" and work on some of the "other chords" in various keys... stuff like: G7sus4,  G7b5, G+, Gdim, G13b5b9, etc... the book I have has approximately 75 different chord variations per basic root chord. 


Learning just a small handful of those chords will expand the possibilities for you when you write. 


Best wishes.....have fun. 

Kenneth


BTW the censored word is not s p i c e - remove the e and you'll see why it's censored, still shouldn't be censored when it's part of another word though.

Yeah I knew what it was censoring - that's why I called it ham fisted -it's looking for offensive words innocently buried in other words. 

Guitarhacker


If guitar is your instrument, buy one of those chord books..... the ones that say "The Only Chord Book You Will Ever Need" or "7500 Essential Chords for Guitar" and work on some of the "other chords" in various keys... stuff like: G7sus4,  G7b5, G+, Gdim, G13b5b9, etc... the book I have has approximately 75 different chord variations per basic root chord. 


Learning just a small handful of those chords will expand the possibilities for you when you write. 

Or you could save a tree and just buy Ted Greene's "Chord Chemistry" instead. I always thought that those books that have a zillion chord fingerings in every key were a waste of paper. Chord Chemistry has a ton of fingerings, but doesn't show them in every key (a waste of time for guitar players who can move box patterns up and down without adjustment) and most of all, it explains the whys of chord voicings, along with such essential concepts as voice leading and substitution. I bought that book when I was 19 and it was the single most useful guitar book I have ever owned. It revolutionized my understanding of chords from the get go. Greene was a master of guitar chords, and it's well worth watching videos of him playing on YouTube to see why. 

I've now got an app on my phone for that. It has chord charts,  a tuner, a metronome, and links to training videos as well..... technology rules.... as long as the power is on. 

There's another thread here with many posts and links about music theory.