Oi new oi shud of sed dat roight.

(enter Straummy) 

Certainly not, what kind of girl do you think I am?


(she cried, waving her wooden leg...more in hope than anger..)

Will someone PLEASEEEEEEE steal THIS SONG????!!!!????

bapu

julibee


a publishing company who would rather take me for a ride.  ;)

Mebee it's a nice car though?

If you've been in one booze limo, you've been in them all, ya?

PRO's.... These are the folks who collect the performance royalties for the public performance of the song on TV, radio, concerts, and other live events. You can only join one. Since they all basically do the same thing, you join only one and stick with them.  they have slight differences but the payment formula tends to work out pretty close to the same no matter which one you choose. 

Beagle..... all songs when written as you know are copyrighted by common law to the writer when they are recorded in a tangible way.  If you self publish..... create your own publishing company and do all the footwork to get the songs to the artists, you can retain the copyright in your name. 

It is common practice to sign the song to a publisher. And when you do, you are signing it away. You give up ALL rights to it. So if you wanted to do a cover of your own song..... the publisher would control that right and you would ask them for permission. Sounds like a bad deal but it's really not. In the normal contract, you retain what is called writer's share of all profits (net) and the rights to being recognized as the writer of the song..... "writer credits" ... in all uses of the song. 

The publisher, generally has the contacts and connections needed to get the song to producers and artists that you as an unknown (or known) writer can very often NOT get to. They do the hard work of plugging the song and getting it "published" in a commercial sense. They retain the "publishers share" of the profits (net) earned from the exploitation of the song. 

In the example you gave you are correct. HFA administers the licenses for use.... they are a specialty company which fills a need. Yes.... Bob Segar wrote it and still has writing credits..... but at some point he assigned his ownership rights to a publishing company which now owns  the song. Bob may own that publisher or he may not.... either way, of 100% of the earnings minus fair and acceptable overhead costs, the net profit gets split 50/50 between Bob and the publisher. 

All the big artists work this way. Check any CD by a major artist. Every song is indicated as copyright to a publisher. I'm sure there are exceptions but this is general practice. Artists who have released several CD's and have a few hits generally will at some point start up their own publishing company to capture that other 50% publisher share. Even some prolific hit writing songwriters will start a publishing company once they get a few hits and get to know enough people to make it a viable solution. 

So... I would rather get 50% of the royalties of a song that I signed to a publisher that to retain 100% of a song making nothing. 

A recording contract is NOT the same... not even close, to a song publishing contract. Most song/publishing contracts tend to be individual contracts..... meaning one contract for one song. 

Some publishers hire and sign writers to a songwriting contract...again, this is a variation of this publishing thing. Staff writers, as they are called, have the advantage of being in a building with other writers and can often co-write with big name writers, but they don't have near the writer share  percentages in the songs as they would like. 

Its a scary thing signing away the ownership of your songs to a publisher. It certainly pays to do your homework and know something about the company before you sign on the line. But that's the most efficient way to get your songs out to the artists unless you happen to be in a band with someone like Allan Jackson, Carrie Underwood, or Reba.

julibee


So... Join the Pro, but DON'T copywrite? The Pro to recoup performance rights when/if it is performed by someone else? And then send to publishers who WILL copywrite? Or have I got it backwards again?? I swear, it looks so simple on paper, but every time I think about it, I get a headache.  And I'm a smart cookie.  So it makes me MAD. LOL!

I ask because just the language itself is confusing.  I've been looking at this on and off for awhile, as you know, because you've so nicely answered question in the past.  I'd rather ask my friend a stupid question than a publishing company who would rather take me for a ride.  ;)

Don't copyright IF you are planning to have a publisher handle/publish the song. If it's going on someone else's CD...let the publisher copyright it. 


When you sign it to them they own it and they will obtain the copyright and list you as the writer. 


Yeah...the PRO collects the performance money. They pay the publisher and they pay you. according to the split indicated in the PRO registry for THAT song. The song gets registered by ONE person with ONE PRO no matter how many writers and how many PRO's are representing those writers. On the form you fill out, there is a place for ALL the writers to be listed AND which PRO they are affiliated with and their CAE/IPI number.  


everyone who is a writer needs to discuss and decide who registers the song. you do not want the confusion and held up payments over double registration of the same song at the same or different PRO's. Whoever registers it needs to know everyone else's CAE/IPI and get copies to them of the print out. 


If you license a cover from HFA..... Harry Fox Agency will keep their profit and send the balance to the publisher who splits it after their overhead and they send you the net 50% or whatever you agreed to in the contract. 


I hope that's helpful and clear.

But that's exaclty my point.  I'm certain that's not the only deal, either.  there's no way the all the big artists are giving their copyright away to the publishing companies.  some, yes.  all, no.  and yes, most of the big artists do own their own publishing companies.

but your quotes regarding the advice NOT to copyright both come from publishing companies.  so I am not convinced that's the right advice to be taking since they're the ones who want your copyright!

yes, do your homework.  that includes taking advice from publishing companies about whether or not to copyright or even to sign over your copyrights to them or not.  or for that matter, don't take advice from anything you read on an internet forum.

get a music lawyer.

That is pure BS Herb. Copyrighting a song, lyric, poem, peice of literary work does not present any obstacle to a publisher or Performing Rights Organization. Nor does it intefere with the copyright holders power or ability to assign rights to any organization, individual or publishing business, including record labels. If a publisher is not willing to sign a transfer of rights contract with specific terms and conditions with a author who is the copyright holder of their own work, they are not worth doing business with. In the event the publisher can't make good with their end of the deal, having your own copyright insures that you retain possession and ownership of your work. If you sign away the rights, the publisher can transfer ownership by selling ownership or letting out specific rights without your consent or approval to whom ever they wish. Suddenly you're doing business with an unknown entity. Publishers release that kind of crape to convince people to sign over the rights. You and a perspective publisher can draw up any contract that is mutually agreeable with any variation of rights and permissions.

Beagle: signing the rights of your song to a publisher is no different than leasing a building to a tenant on a long term contract or an inventor signing a deal with a company to promote and sell his/her invention. Unless you are willing to do all the work the publisher will do, that's pretty much the way it is in the music business if you want to try to get the songs out to be used.  BTW: most publishing contracts have reversion of ownership if the song is not published in a certain time frame....BUT if it is released commercially, it becomes the property of the copyright owner who is the publisher basically forever. I think it's 75 years now.... I'd need to look that up to be sure. It changes from time to time. 

Craig: it sure does interfere. If you register it in your name, the publisher has to go through the paperwork process (remember, they are dealing with a US government entity here) to change the copyright from your personal name to their business name. Most are willing to do it but it does make for extra work and if this is happening a few hundred times a week at the LOC that is a bunch of time. 

In my case, I have dealt with a number of publishers who signed my songs and dealt with the paperwork to change the copyright. The one I referred to, simply asked me to not do it in the future since it made it easier on him to get the songs properly and quickly and accurately registered. No big mystery or conspiracy to screw songwriters out of their songs. 

And yes.. they can then resell the work as many times as they want.... ( the Beatles catalog is a fine example) but that means nothing to you as the writer.....you still get the full 50% writers share regardless of how many times it is sold to other companies. There can not be 2 copyrights existing on the same song at the same time by two or more different copyright claimants. So you can not retain one "In the event something goes wrong"...that's what lawyers and courts are for.  But how often does that sort of issue actually occur? Deal with reputable, well established companies and the risk goes way down. 

If the copyright gets sold to another publisher in a deal, they still must abide by the original agreement and conduct business paying the writers what they are supposed to receive. I've not had a song in a catalog that has been sold so I'm not 100% on the specifics but it has happened and life goes on. The main thing that I and most other writers would care the most about is that the royalty checks are delivered to the correct address in a timely manner. As far as who wants to record the song or use it.... I don''t care.  

Of course.... you could theoretically run into the situation where ...lets say you wrote a song and it became a hit..and then years later some politician who you don't agree with or like, wants to license your song for some political ad underscore. Unless you are the publisher too..... you really wouldn't have much of a say as long as the license fee was paid...... but if the publisher owned it 100% like many do, they of course could allow the use of the song if the price is paid and then they would of course send you your 50% royalty check..... which if you were a man of principles, you would return promptly...... right?  I heard about something like this recently with the current politicians and national TV and a famous singer's song. I forget the singer  and the song. 

If you want to have a publisher represent you and your song, you must give them ownership. No one.... not even you, would take any risk or put forth any effort for anything that you did not have some sort of ownership and control in. Same thing here. When writers sign, they do give complete ownership to the publisher to act in their MUTUAL best interests. 

At some level... regardless how people look at the music business and the relationship between songwriters and publishers, there must be trust and respect and the understanding that it is first and foremost a business relationship and deal designed to make money for both. 

Obviously, there are hundreds of thousands of songwriters who are happy with the way this works because the songs you hear on the radio are handled in this very manner. 

Craig: it sure does interfere. If you register it in your name, the publisher has to go through the paperwork process (remember, they are dealing with a US government entity here) to change the copyright from your personal name to their business name. Most are willing to do it but it does make for extra work and if this is happening a few hundred times a week at the LOC that is a bunch of time.

 
Who's going to report it to the Library of Congress? The author , who just signed a contract with the publisher? You as the author don't have to reassign your copyright via the Library of Congress at that point. It's held in the conditions of the contract with the publisher. Your personal business once copyright has been established is not the business of the copyright office unless you are filing a complaint of infringement.

The publisher will ask you if you have registered previously and will get the copyright registration number of your previous/first registration. 

On the registration form PA there is a place which specifically asks if this registration is based on a former registration or if it is a derivative  work.  Falsifying the information will void the registration in a court of law and opens a can of worms you don't want. Lawyers are expensive.  

I don't quite understand what you are saying..... If you just signed the song to a publisher in a song contract.... of course the publisher will seek reassignment of copyright on the song...he now owns the song, not you.... you gave him that right and permission to do so in the contract in exchange for the promise to pay you a predetermined (in the contract) share of the profits. When you sign that song contract, you don't own the song anymore even though you may still have the original copyright forms.  

The song contract, and the new copyright in the publisher's name, which the publisher exercises,  take precedence over any and all previous agreements. This is sometimes stated in the contract in the mice print..... hence it pays to read and understand fully what you are agreeing to, giving up, and getting in return before you sign on the line. 

If you don't want to give up copyright ownership there is only one solution and only one way to retain any ownership of the song..... do not sign the song away in a contract. Simple.