slartabartfast


In the internet posting happy world of modern musician/composers, where your material may be exposed to many thousands of potentially illegitimate eyes/ears, and rendered subject to compulsory licensing as a result of being de facto published as a phonorecord via CD's sold out of your van at the concert or MP3's uploaded to sharing sites, the security gained by copyrighting your work yourself before giving it a lot of exposure may make a lot of sense. For one thing, without a registered copyright, you cannot win legal costs in a dispute, even if you win the suit. Obviously illegitimate publishers (pirates?) would not want you to have a copyright for that and other reasons.  

This is exactly the point I've been making.  When we put music on the internet for streaming/download or if we make a CD and sell it on CDbaby or at the gig to the fans - then we are acting as our own publishing company.  if we are acting as our own publishing company then it is important, IMO, to register that copyright.  if you don't then you are leaving your songs unprotected since you are not represented by anyone other than yourself.

@ Slart 

In regards to Australia's 'Automatic' Copyright Protection Act; 

The clear problem with not having a registration system, is that it requires what the legal profession calls a lying contest, and what the lay public calls a lawsuit without clear evidence, to resolve disputes. 

Is the above in your own words or sighted from an official document? 


Anyway... what Australia has done in regards to 'Automatic Copyright Protection' is simplified the process and all without discrimination and prejudice. It does not matter if a writer is rich or poor since 'all' copyright owners have the right to seek legal aid especially if the evidence is clear such as; published work(s) which is effectively 'registration' --- no doubt if the work(s) is published (and clearly evident) the legal profession in Australia will NOT throw their arms up in the air and shout out; lair, lair, liar LOL! 


Copyright laws have gaping loop-holes in it and is appallingly out-dated; 

Particularly not keeping up with technology and the Internet --- one example; most music streaming site owners go through loop-holes to avoid costs yet some of these music streaming site owners are millionaires who make their money from advertising and from numerous additional services ($$$) that writers/bands pay.... 

.... to be fair; without the contribution of music posted on such sites these site owners (music streaming sites) would NOT be stinking rich, so why don't they pay part of (advertising shares) to the bands?... I know of one site that attempts to do just that = pay the writers/musicians.   That said; there is a way to distribute those shares $$$ to bands but a lot of music steaming sites simply take the whole slice of the pie. 

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The USA also has a law that says in effect that when you record a song in a tangible medium.... you have automatic copyright on it. No further action is needed... but to bring the case to a US court of law, a LOC copyright filing is a requirement.  

With computers, the files are all date stamped and when you load it to a site it is date stamped. That is your proof of creation dating.  If someone steals the song or loads it off the net to some other site.... it's up to the copyright holder.....YOU... to address that problem. OR..... you can hire a lawyer to handle it for you....for a price. In most cases, it's not worth the hassle .... which is the main reason you folks who record cover tunes and post them on your soundclick sites are not getting cease and desist letters from record company lawyers. 

Mailing a package to yourself does not hold up in court because it is too easy to fake that...or open the package and reseal it. Don't waste you time or money. 

The comment Slart made... about most of the music having NO value at all is the primary reason not to waste money on copyright.  I'm guessing here.... but I'd say at least 99% of all music written  (including much of mine) falls into this category. If you want to copyright it, have at it.... but in reality it is a waste of money and time. 

Just write your songs and post them for us to hear and enjoy doing it. 

Beagle

slartabartfast


In the internet posting happy world of modern musician/composers, where your material may be exposed to many thousands of potentially illegitimate eyes/ears, and rendered subject to compulsory licensing as a result of being de facto published as a phonorecord via CD's sold out of your van at the concert or MP3's uploaded to sharing sites, the security gained by copyrighting your work yourself before giving it a lot of exposure may make a lot of sense. For one thing, without a registered copyright, you cannot win legal costs in a dispute, even if you win the suit. Obviously illegitimate publishers (pirates?) would not want you to have a copyright for that and other reasons.  

This is exactly the point I've been making.  When we put music on the internet for streaming/download or if we make a CD and sell it on CDbaby or at the gig to the fans - then we are acting as our own publishing company.  if we are acting as our own publishing company then it is important, IMO, to register that copyright.  if you don't then you are leaving your songs unprotected since you are not represented by anyone other than yourself.

In that case scenario and as a US citizen then YES I guess you are correct. 


From an Aussie perspective and IMO you would think that once a song is published (globally) and clearly time-stamped then it should be clear evidence and protected which it is according to Australia's automatic copyright act.  

Of course anyone can very easily (freely) release a CD as Slart said and in that case scenario (regardless if copyright registration was done or not) it's still a matter of; will the work(s) be in serious violation of copyright and if so?.... then I guess life is gonna take a quick path to hell and it won't matter if the violation of copyright was intentional or unintentional. 

I tell ya' writers/musicians may have to take up another much 'safer' artistic endeavor such as; painting.   


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Guitarhacker


The USA also has a law that says in effect that when you record a song in a tangible medium.... you have automatic copyright on it. No further action is needed... but to bring the case to a US court of law, a LOC copyright filing is a requirement.  

With computers, the files are all date stamped and when you load it to a site it is date stamped. That is your proof of creation dating.  If someone steals the song or loads it off the net to some other site.... it's up to the copyright holder.....YOU... to address that problem. OR..... you can hire a lawyer to handle it for you....for a price. In most cases, it's not worth the hassle .... which is the main reason you folks who record cover tunes and post them on your soundclick sites are not getting cease and desist letters from record company lawyers. 

Mailing a package to yourself does not hold up in court because it is too easy to fake that...or open the package and reseal it. Don't waste you time or money. 

The comment Slart made... about most of the music having NO value at all is the primary reason not to waste money on copyright.  I'm guessing here.... but I'd say at least 99% of all music written  (including much of mine) falls into this category. If you want to copyright it, have at it.... but in reality it is a waste of money and time. 

Just write your songs and post them for us to hear and enjoy doing it. 

I just saw your post and highlighted what matters most 


YES! Enjoy the art of writing songs - that's a positive note to end on ;)

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you would think that once a song is published (globally) and clearly time-stamped then it should be clear evidence and protected

The potential problem occurs when it is not the author, or the author's licensee who first publishes/popularizes the work. The internet may well be the best way to debut your work from that perspective as it creates potentially thousands of witnesses who can say they first heard it from you (via the download site). Clearly that is a better way than singing in the park, where a pirate might easily hear (or surreptitiously record) it, and then re-record it, claim it is his own and upload it to the internet, thus creating potentially thousands of witnesses who can say they first heard it from him. Or said pirate could just file a false copyright before you did, thus creating a prima facie case that he is the author. Against that you will have to produce your mother who heard you sing it in the shower and the two stoners who were playing hacky sack in the park and think they remember you singing it.

One more time just for an encore. Copyrighting your work does not present any reasonable problem to any publisher, major label, rights organization or another artist wishing to use your work publicly. Anyone that wants to make you beleive it is a problem, is leading you down a long lonely road.

I really should pay attention to this thread. I have to get registered with SOCAN and the songwriters guild. SOCAN is weird though with their membership stipulations. I think I'm gonna have to call them and see what the heck I'm supposed to do. I qualify but I really don't know what approach I should take and which requirements I should focus on. All the stuff I've done is irrelevant to my current needs and goals but it seems I'll have to invoke the past to make the future happen. Not sure about this publisher business either. I want to publish my own stuff but apparently that's a completely different set of rules. 

I JUST WANT TO MAKE MUSIC!!!

blerg...

Another thing to note, it is easy change the time stamp. All you need to do is set your computers date to one you know was made way before whoever you wanted steal their idea from created theirs. Then open your DAW and get to work. Render and it will be time stamped there. Not disagreeing, just showing a flaw that everyone should be aware about.

Slart: The potential problem occurs when it is not the author, or the author's licensee who first publishes/popularizes the work. 


Exactly ;) 

Sort of kinda like saying; the potential problem is when a guy walks into a 5 star restaurant enjoy's the 5 course pig-out meal then walk's out without paying for it --- dang it LOL! 


Be it; unintentional infringement (use) or with intention to blatantly rip off another authors work(s) 


Furthermore there is no doubt that the copyright registration process is not perfect (I'll explain more later) and in regards to other issues;  


To put your reply back in context and with what I said above; regardless if the work(s) (music) is registered at the copyright office or NOT there is still a potential problem that it's NOT the original author(s) work(s) --- the copyright registration process is not perfect; 


I agree with Herb; copyright registration is a waste of money especially since most writers/musicians will be lucky to break even = earn zero $$$ dang it and since there's thousands of releases everyday 'most' writers/musicians will be lucky if anyone else besides their family and close friends and their forum buddy's had heard their songs; 


now in that context I strongly believe that the 'Australian' system; no registration required in regards to copyright protection makes more sense as it simplifies the system and removes unnecessary added cost!! 


In regards to the Internet; I agree it's oh so easy for 'anyone' to publish their work(s) --- but when writers/band release/publish their work(s) there is generally a clause in the agreement (or site's TOS) concerning author(s) and copyrights; there are penalties for submitting false claims; writers/musicians work(s) can be removed!