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  • Sonar to Reaper in 4 clicks (public alpha) (p.8)
2018/02/08 00:28:46
Just Another Bloke
emwhy
Latest update. It will load MIDI projects but splits the synth track and the MIDI data into 2 seperate tracks. 


Which is exactly how I work in SONAR, so I like that.
 
Any synth I have in SONAR is created using Instert->Soft Synth and so I get a folder, a MIDI track and at least one synth audio track (more if I select multiple outs).
2018/02/08 00:30:01
Just Another Bloke
I hope Alexy will eventually get to maintaining folder structures.
2018/02/08 07:15:40
azslow3
emwhy
Latest update. It will load MIDI projects but splits the synth track and the MIDI data into 2 seperate tracks. I had to go to the track outputs and reroute them to the various soft synths.
It did load a track with some vst effects but they were also seperated into what Reaper called a Matrix track.

Effects has to be one the (audio) track the originally was. Synth are in fact 3(!) tracks, one with synth, one with MIDI and one with FXes (after synth).
What I have asked to test is which effects are transferred correctly and which not. The project structure is not yet converted and in general the subject of a separate discussion...
Just Another Bloke
I hope Alexy will eventually get to maintaining folder structures.

At the moment, I see no reason to ever convert Sonar folders. That sounds almost useless for me.
Current (not fixed) plans, the subject of correction by someone good in Reaper (to apply "best practice"):
* tracks are grouped using its original outputs. So if you have GTX1...GTX10 with output to GTX Bus, the bus becomes a folder with these tracks included. The hierarchy can have several levels (for buses and AUX tracks). But routing is done with Master disabled, completely by sends. So the project can be easily reorganized, down to "flat" level, by (group) dragging tracks.
* In general, Synthes will be in a separate "folder" called "Synth Rack". All incoming MIDI tracks are sub-tracks of corresponding synths. "Instrument" tracks are in the normal project structure. That is guided by the Sonar specific approach for Synth. In Reaper, they are always FXes. In Sonar they are special.
In future version, that structure can be "optimized" in some particular cases. F.e. if a Synth was connected to one (and only one) "Simple Instrument Track" in sonar, only one track is created for it (with MIDI, synth itself and following FXes).
But I propose we wait with the discussion at least till you see how that works in practice (with a bit of luck, not so long). The implementation (I mean the code) is well prepared to modify the "rules of Reaperafication".
 
 
2018/02/08 11:36:03
emwhy
I see what you mean about buses vs. folders. That's one aspect of Reaper that I like, but it took a bit to get used to, using a folder as a bus or submix. 
 
On the project I tested I had Addictive Drums, Addictive Keys, and Korg Wavestation with the Sonitus EQ on each track and yes the settings did transfer, I just had to drag the effects and synths onto one track for each tot test. Will all this more in about 12 hours.
 
I have yet to test with vst3 plug-ins, that will come tonight.
 
Edit to update:
 
I did a project with 2 instances of Korg Wavestation and 1 of Dimension Pro. It loaded all 3 with presets and even pulled in the correct rex file for Dim Pro. What I did was use the mixer page and simply drag the synths from the audio tracks on to the corresponding MIDI tracks, took 2 seconds and things ran perfectly.
 
One more update:
 
I dragged the MIDI tracks under the Synth Rack tracks and treated them (Synth tracks) as folders and child tracks (MIDI tracks) and it worked great. That's doing it the Reaper method.
 
Sorry guys, off to work will test more tonight with bigger projects and vst 3s, but so far even RXP synth loaded fine and that's a bridged 32 bit plug-in.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
2018/02/08 15:06:32
Just Another Bloke
azslow3
 
At the moment, I see no reason to ever convert Sonar folders. That sounds almost useless for me.
 


Folders are a huge part of my project organization and workflow. I totally dig how Reaper can collapse/expand a folder right in the mixer completely independent of the "track view" folder expand/collapse.
2018/02/08 16:08:52
azslow3
Just Another Bloke
azslow3
At the moment, I see no reason to ever convert Sonar folders. That sounds almost useless for me.

Folders are a huge part of my project organization and workflow. I totally dig how Reaper can collapse/expand a folder right in the mixer completely independent of the "track view" folder expand/collapse.

In the worse case, you have sufficient karma to get "ReaCWP_Just_Another_Block_Edition"
But please do not prejudge, it can happened you like your projects inside my current structure ideas (if nothing comes in-between, in several hours).
2018/02/08 18:55:05
azslow3
Dear testers,
I have just uploaded b12. Not updated comments yet.
 
Note that many basic things are internally still not there.
In particular: everything is stereo, no side chains, no multi-out synth (all outputs are routed as the first stereo), no levels/pans for anything.
 
But... Buses, sends, synthrack, MIDI and routing between all that is in place. So from now on, it looks like it will be in the first alpha.
 
From that point we can discuss folders. If you was not working seriously in Reaper before (I was not), the way my converter represent your projects now can be irritating at first, up to the level "what you have done with MY project dude??? please give me back the thing I have created!"
But I think we all should learn Reaper way to do things. And from my knowledge (experts can correct), I have tried to "recreate" your projects the way you likely do them in Reaper.
Please, give it a try before complain.
 
F.e. synth rack. Yes, an artificial "Synth Rack", and an artificial "Synth" tracks (in addition to MIDI and output).
As I wrote before, I can optimize some particular cases later. But in general, imagine a synth with 16 input MIDI tracks and several outputs. How you express it in Reaper other way?
 
2018/02/08 19:22:50
Just Another Bloke
That is looking goo Alexy. I need to study it more which will be tomorrow night.
2018/02/08 19:46:26
emwhy
Good job Alexi, I had to learn things the Reaper way with folders vs. busses (submixes) a few weeks back and I'm glad I did. For those of you who aren't familiar enough with Reaper, unlike Sonar you can set-up effects on the track folder that effect all the tracks in that folder, you can even have sub folders in those folders and use effects on them. Can't do that in Sonar. It's a good way to work once you learn it and can save screen real estate especially in the mixer view.
Give this a view if you're not familiar:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dejEW5YjxbQ
 
EDIT:
Just tested on my work PC and I see totally what and how you're doing things Alexi. Using a track folder for the entire project and calling it Master and then any subgroups/busses/submixes are also in track folders....brilliant...takes full advantage of the reaper way. Only downside is my work projects are very simplistic vs. music projects and we use the 32 bit version of Sonar whereas they are allowing us to test only the 64 bit version of Reaper, so it doesn't find my 32 bit dx stuff like Sonitus and it won't load my Nomad stuff because those are locked to Sonar. Will test at home more tonight
 
 
 
 
 
2018/02/08 20:01:40
Just Another Bloke
In SONAR a bus can be a sub mix or it could be a recipient of multiple sends (i.e. like a common master reverb). I'l call that a "common FX" for the purpose of this point.
 
This is what I need to study more with the new b12 version.
 
How will the plug know if a SONAR bus is a sub-mix or a common FX?
 
Also, how will a send on a bus (to another bus) be handled? And/or multiple bus sends to a "common FX" bus?
 
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