• Techniques
  • Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me (p.2)
2014/01/26 18:59:12
dubdisciple
Awesome advice Danny.  For now, i have been "cheating" by simply avoiding the chords I can't play, but you may be on to something by suggesting alternate tunings.  I think the key thing I will take away from your advice is the main thing is to find a way to get what is in my head out and not focus so much on technique.  Thank you all.
2014/01/26 20:04:47
sharke
Some people find barre chords a lot easier than others. I think a lot of it has to do with finger type. I have long bony fingers and I found barre chords difficult at first, probably because the bones protrude at the joints and so the flesh in between them curves inward a little. So the strings which are between the joints have less pressure on them. I have to press really hard to get all the strings. 
 
That said, these days I have no trouble playing them, even an F barre chord in the first position on a steel string acoustic with 0.13 gauge strings and a high action. Callouses help a lot. I have a pretty thick callous which runs right along the side of my index finger. 
 
The exact position of your hand is also very important. There are multiple variables at play here. There's the rotation of your index finger (you'll probably get better results if you rotate it so that you're pressing with the side of the finger and not the bottom), the position of your thumb (directly under the first finger gives you more strength), the position of your index finger across the fretboard (I make sure the high E string is right under the middle joint so that it rings out clearly), and the position of the elbow (bringing it closer to your torso will give you more fretting strength). 
2014/01/28 15:44:36
Beepster
It's all about leverage, dub. You want to make sure your thumb is in the right place on the back of the neck and pointing in the right direction. This can change from one chord formation to another and kind of depends on the size and strength of your hands. I, like sharke, have really long bony fingers so barre chords were a real biznatch for me and I actually used my thumb to wrap around the neck to fret the root of six string barre chords. As "cool" as that may look and in song cases is a really useful technique for producing super crisp sound chords while moving around quickly it is limited and sucks for changing chord QUALITIES in one position or easily using the barre as the foundation for little solos or variations within the chord as you strum it.
 
Now after doing EXTENSIVE scale and chord practicing and doing a ton of strength building playing barre chords the correct way is pretty easy for me but it took a lot of work and I definitely learned to pay attention to what my thumb was doing.
 
You want to make sure you are applying pressure with your thumb in the best spot to squeeze down with your fingers on the other side. For the more straight up major and minor chords starting on the sixth and fifth strings this is usually right in the middle of the back of the neck (slightly closer to the top for six string chords because you need extra pressure closer to the top because that's where the "extra" fingers are fretting notes on top of the barre and a little lower for fifth string bars because those extra fingers are a little lower... basically the barre is the easy part and extra pressure is needed for the other fingers). I, because I have long hands push into these chords from the back at the knuckle or sometimes just above or below depending on what's going on. Usually for those basic chords my thumb will point upwards as that gives me the best leverage.
 
When things start going weird then the thumb may point more toward the nut on an angle and I'll use the pad of the thumb. Other times the thumb will be wrapping around the neck (usually if I am doing something on the bottom strings).
 
So basically just really pay attention to your thumb and try to apply equal and opposite pressure where needed.
 
Also practice the various modal patterns starting at say the fifth fret or whatever all the way up to the high E, again paying attention to your thumb. You will see this need for equal pressure in the right spot at the right time as you do that. Also doing I III V arpeggios of the 6 string minor barre chord up to the second octave on the high E will really help build up some strength for barre chords (any of them... it's just a good way to build up your squeezing power).
 
So... yeah. Leverage, thumb, strength building. Good luck.
2014/01/28 16:18:29
dwardzala
Barre chords were one of the things I struggled with as well for the longest time.  I tried to learn on my acoustic and then I bought a cheap electric to learn them on.  I still didn't get them for like a year and a half.  Then all of a sudden I did.  I don't know if I eventually figured out the exact technique for my fingers/hand size/shape/etc. or just developed enough strength to make it happen, but it did eventually happen.
 
Just keep at it, even if it sounds like carp, you will get there eventually (and probably quicker than me).
2014/01/28 16:41:42
Jay Tee 4303
Ima cut back against the grain here...
 
Thanksgiving, fake heart attack, hospitalized kid, un-fake heart attack, Christmas, New Years, blizzard, flu...my world was trying to crash and burn...
 
Dive right into the middle of the biggest pile. Once you knock down the core, the little details left on the fringes, take care of themselves.
 
Your main obstacles early on are finger strength, lack of callouses, dexterity, reach and stretch, and precision. To make this work, you have to Dare to Suck. You will suck way worse on the heavy action acoustic than you will on the light string low action electric, and as long as you don't kill your desire, the more youn suck, the better.
 
Put away the soft stringed, low action, easy to play electric and just play on the acoustic. Not slow easy acoustic music, but electric guitar music, barre chords and lightning leads.
 
Mix it with recorded music, best off if you do it in Sonar, kill yet another bird with one stone, when you're done, you'll have backing tracks, practice files you can flip parts on and off, and arrangements that allow you to communicate and collaborate with other musicians, but you can just play MP3s, Midis, CDs, concert videos, etc, too, just set levels so you can hear you and the part you are trying to learn.
 
Make it music you can't hear enough of...your favorites, and you'll get a feel pretty quick what you have a shot at, for now, and what's beyond your reach. Let the passion drive your achey, burning fingers just a little bit harder than you might covering wedding or elevator music.
 
Open a pipe to Youtube, and plug "Song/Band Name, guitar lesson" into the search box for the oddball fingerings and chords, and have a full time pad of paper and pen near your rig.
 
Build a playlist of 5 or 10 songs you like that aren't too far out of reach. If you're on a PC, make a playlist(s) on Windows Media Player and put a two digit number in the title, like Barre Chords 01.  Picking 01. Lead 01. Right click on the Media Player, scroll down to Enhancements, and get comfy with the Graphic Equalizer  and Play Speed Settings. You will use the EQ to minimize the part you are learning when you have it down well enough that the original is in your way, and you'll use Playback Speed to get to that point quicker.
 
You need the structure of a solid rhythm track, otherwise, the tempo of your playing will be at the mercy of your finger limitations. Start by slowing things down till you have time for a sip of coffee and a smoke between chord changes...you want the moves in brain memory to start out with.
 
Once you remember the fingerings, speed things up a little at a time, till you get to about 125% of normal speed. You WILL be screwing it all up and sound terrible! Headphones lessen inhibition. Dare to Suck!
 
At some point, you're going to EQ the original guitar out of the recorded sound, and take off the headphones, and at this point it's all on you. You have to rock the song by yourself, NOT BLEND IN WITH THE ORIGINAL GUITARIST. You have to show him and the world how IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE.
 
But not today. Today you are the grasshopper, learning respectfully at the feet of the Masters.
 
Now slow it down again and work up thru the speed settings again, but this time, concentrate on making every string ring, AND sound as good as possible. Before you move on, back the speed down to 100% normal and lock THAT timing in for your last take.
 
Take a short break, shake out your hand, and move on to the next song.
 
Your fingers will ache, as will your forearm. Work THRU this. Ache is good! You are straining muscles and tendons, and they will fight back by beefing up, which is exactly what you need.
 
At some point, your fingertips will begin to burn. This is the signal to wind up the practice session. A little bit of friction burn is good, but if you tear the skin, or set conditions for it to split, you will be out for days or weeks. If your tips are a little bruised the next day, practice a little to see if it goes away, but don't push too hard. Go set up another element in your studio or practice rig, listen to some great guitar, whet the appetite for tmorrow.
 
You are deliberately manipulating yourself, both your mind and your body, and as long as you're honest with yourself, manipulation achieves objectives.
 
After practice, drink a glass of milk, eat a vitamin, and rob the old lady for a bit of skin moisturizer for your fingertips. While the moisturizer will temporarily inhibit callous formation, in the long run it will allow you to practice daily without long gaps due to tip damage.
 
Do this for a week, on the acoustic guitar, and then try it on electric. You will amaze yourself and your friends with the progress.
 
Very soon, you will need to have a drum machine and recorder handy when you practice. Ideas will come to you and you will want them logged so you can explore them later, but you don't want to inhibit practice time setting up to log new ideas. A smart phone can serve double duty, and if you have wireless internet, old smart phones are gold. So is a Bluetooth speaker system.  You want to practice in a comfortable setting, save the flying Vanhalen leaps for after the changes and fingerings are locked in muscle memory.
 
I've been told that muscle memory requires 1200 to 3000 iterations of a movement pattern, but never actually counted myself.
 
Happy shredding!
2014/01/28 17:06:52
dubdisciple
wow...dare to suck!!  Thank you all.  I have decide dto start from scratch on my guitar journey so I am taking the guitar course on coursera to kickstart myself.  I remember more than I thought but trying to filter much of it out because I also remember some bad habits too.  Anyway, truly appreciate the advice.  It is good to get a lot of different perspectives. 
2014/01/28 17:15:50
Jay Tee 4303
One more thing.
 
See if one or two strings are always the same ones choking off. If so take a look at where those strings are landing on the inside of your index finger.
 
Good chance they are landing right at a finger joint, where you don't have quite as much meat to press down with.
 
Adjust this placement, and remember, you don't have to fret the strings that your other three tips are holding down further up the neck.
2014/01/28 17:19:19
dubdisciple
Hmmm  i will have to look at that.  maybe even set up video camera on my hands so that I can see it from an actual position I am playing.
2014/01/28 17:34:51
Beepster
I agree it's best to do this kind of thing on an acoustic guitar to learn. Just go slow and steady. Always warm up and stretch. If you start feeling too much pain or if you feel pain/burning in your arms, especially near the elbow joint stop for the day and put an ice pack on the area and/or take an advil.
 
Tendonitis is a bugger. Trust me.
2014/01/28 17:40:01
mettelus
Reminded me of a couple quick technique points as you learn:
 
   1) Try to focus on the "minimum force" needed to get the job done, this actually has to be a focus for some, since they take to barre chords like wrestling a gorilla. Not only can too much pressure cause undo wear and tear on your hand, but can also detune the chord you are playing. Hand placement is key, so dabble with positions that feel most comfortable to you.
   2) Another is to actually ring each individual note of chords to check your fingering position with respect to the fret. Each individual note should ring as if you are simply fretting that one string an playing. I choke my index finger all the way up to "damn near" on top of the fret for the barre.
 
Finger strength will come with practice, but technique should always get primary focus. It can be difficult to unlearn bad technique if it gets ingrained.
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