bapubad jokes? This is my A-List material.

 
Dude, the second you mentioned my name in a thread, I knew you were bringing your A-game...now THAT'S pure comedy. Hahahaha! Thaks brother...check is in the mail. :-Þ
 
Michael: Any project is worth while as there is something to learn from each one.Last week I had some joker go off on a tantrum about how high end gear makes this huge difference...which in a sense, it can and does...but shouldn't be something people NEED to get results. Of course I found myself in another one of those "challenged" situations where I whipped up a 3 minute guitar instrumental with all stock stuff on a little stock Dell with no great plugs and made a believer out of the dude.
 
I learned so much from that little thing I created as it taught me that just about any sound can be manipulated to sound decent. And let me tell you....I struggled with some of these sounds. LOL! The tune isn't major label quality or anything, but I don't think anyone would object to getting the sounds on it and in my opinion, i's better than demo quality. So it really doesn't matter what you're faced with....you just have to know when to do something as well as how to go about it.
 
For example, I know you have loads of all the best plugs, but say you had a Casio drum sound. We could Drumagog the heck out of it and make it sound like a real kit. Shoot man....I can make percussive sounds into a mic and Drumagog them into a kit....I've done that before!
 
The hardest thing to manipulate is a horribly recorded bass guitar....but even a bass in its worst condition can be fixed to where it fits in the mix. Other than that though, we can fix just about anything these days. So don't beat yourself up over being perfect. The key is to allow you imperfections to show so I can help you fix them. And trust me, I'll tell you about every little thing...but in a nice way that makes you want to learn, not in a way that makes you think I'm sitting here on a power trip. We'll talk brother. :)
 
-Danny

Crg

that I could send a project to a real pro and he could tell me just how out in left field I was.

 
None of us are true sound-recording engineers. I sometimes wonder if they even exist anymore in the digital DAW age. I'm sure we'd all like to have our own sound-recording engineer on tap to "revise" our inconsistancys to the "science". But truthfully, I fully beleive that the "science" and equipment have progressed so far, so fast, that even the best are still catching up and revising the current systems.
I look at the diversity of music today and I have huge problem finding where left feild is in relation to sound. Something fresh tomorrow? Science is notorious for pushing the envelope and then falling back to a point and starting over with a new... direction?-avenue of math?- set of denominators for a system? It's what we're all caught up in and working on.

I have to peacefully disagree with the above statement. What constitutes a "true sound engineer"? To me, someone that can manipulate sounds and make them sound right on a wide array of systems regardless if people like the material or not. End of story. There is no science other than the science you allow to rule or choose your own destiny. I don't think about math, science or marketers pushing hype, systems, or being fresh or original. I create a sound...I either like it or I manipulate it until I like it. If I don't like it, I recreate it and keep at it until I'm happy.
 
What constitutes being a real sound engineer? A degree? A platinum album? Being around in the 60's to the 80's making records on tape and creating sounds from scratch? Why work harder when in 2012y ou can work smarter? Why does anything have to be considered "true"? A sound is a sound. Whether you create it with an amp and a mic, use 8 mic's and different amps, isolation rooms, weird gizmos, EZDrummer or Alicia's keys....you still HAVE to know a little something about sound manipulation. If anything, some of the sounds out of the box that we have today make SOME things harder.
 
Ever try to fit some of the East/West instruments in a mix to where they aren't the focal point? Those instruments rule...but try using them as backing instruments in a rock song or ballad. They engulf the entire mix with sound that is so big, you have to know how to trim them down to even make them usable. Just because a sound is already created doesn't mean it's going to work right out of the box. It needs to be manipulated to fit in the mix.
 
Whether you create the sound yourself or use something that already has a good starting point, you're doomed if you know nothing about compression, eq, mix placement and how to make everything fit. It might not be "true sound" due to not literally creating the sound yourself, but you ARE still engineering it and have to mix it. Creating sounds is easy...making them work or fit in the mix is the challenge no matter what sound it is.
 
-Danny

Two things I've noticed personally, and that is, the more I try to get it right, the worse it sounds. The three best recordings I've done with sonar were quick key tests. Just sang them withou trying, plopped down in front of the Mic, did midi real quick without using prv. Then did some simple eq, comp, limiting. The other thing is, the first recordings I made when I was a kid on cheap radio shack mics and tape decks STILL to this day sound better than almost everything I've done on higher end gear. I really think the more technical and in depth we get with ou hobby, the more we become our own worst enemy. Sorry for no breaks, using FF on my cell.

Bub


Two things I've noticed personally, and that is, the more I try to get it right, the worse it sounds. The three best recordings I've done with sonar were quick key tests. Just sang them withou trying, plopped down in front of the Mic, did midi real quick without using prv. Then did some simple eq, comp, limiting. The other thing is, the first recordings I made when I was a kid on cheap radio shack mics and tape decks STILL to this day sound better than almost everything I've done on higher end gear. I really think the more technical and in depth we get with ou hobby, the more we become our own worst enemy. Sorry for no breaks, using FF on my cell.

There's definite truth to that for sure. I have a few of those myself. That said, you should still be able to apply the old ways you may have done something, ya know? The capturing and editing is different, but the principal remains the same if ya think about it. I haven't really changed much over the years other than using guitar cab simulation a bit more because I've come up with methods that I feel are just as good as me mic'n one of my cabs. I like to run midi on a real drum kit as a safety net just in case I want to experiment or improve/remove something....and copy and paste is a nice addition as well as automated punch-in/out...which for me had to be done via foot-switch in the old days or by manually pressing play and record on my huge tape decks. LOL!
 
The thing where I think people start to lose themselves Bub...is when they try to totally change something that may work for the sake of "so and so says you MUST do it this way and use this gear." If you went back to your old gear and methods and used them with Sonar as your recording source, you should be able to come up with the same sound with the difference being a bit brighter due to digital showing you what you're really recording instead of analog circuitry or even reel to reel or cassette recording warming things up.
 
That said, I'm with you on that aspect completely. I keep things simple and try not to go too over-board unless I really have to, someone demands it or I'm in some sort of creative position where I need to do something off the wall. Other than that, I always stick to what works. :)
 
-Danny

Whether you create the sound yourself or use something that already has a good starting point, you're doomed if you know nothing about compression, eq, mix placement and how to make everything fit. It might not be "true sound" due to not literally creating the sound yourself, but you ARE still engineering it and have to mix it. Creating sounds is easy...making them work or fit in the mix is the challenge no matter what sound it is.

 
I'm doomed.
Anybody need some cheap guitars and keyboards?

57Gregy

Whether you create the sound yourself or use something that already has a good starting point, you're doomed if you know nothing about compression, eq, mix placement and how to make everything fit. It might not be "true sound" due to not literally creating the sound yourself, but you ARE still engineering it and have to mix it. Creating sounds is easy...making them work or fit in the mix is the challenge no matter what sound it is.

 
I'm doomed.
Anybody need some cheap guitars and keyboards?

No need for drastic actions Greg.  Just throw it together any way you want and slam it onto a CD.  Then market it to the youth of America; they don't have a clue how something is supposed to sound anymore anyway.

What constitutes a "true sound engineer"?

 
Just a general statement Danny. But, in the "old days" before digital as an example, sound engineers actually designed and made the needed equipment for recording projects, as well as tailoring existing equipment not so much by ear but the science of the frequencies involved and the electronic requirements to acheive a given effect or result. While we do much of this by ear and sound and recording engineers also do, an ear trained by the actual science and technical regimens of sound and electronics engineering is going to base their solution and results on a lot more than, "that sounds good."

Crg

What constitutes a "true sound engineer"?

 
Just a general statement Danny. But, in the "old days" before digital as an example, sound engineers actually designed and made the needed equipment for recording projects, as well as tailoring existing equipment not so much by ear but the science of the frequencies involved and the electronic requirements to acheive a given effect or result. While we do much of this by ear and sound and recording engineers also do, an ear trained by the actual science and technical regimens of sound and electronics engineering is going to base their solution and results on a lot more than, "that sounds good."

But ultimately, "That sounds good" is all that matters, regardless of how it was achieved.

Well if I get something to sound good I'd sure like to know how I achieved it
so I could do it again.

One big problem I have had is I spend a lot of time learning about some phase of the
process and by the time I get more time to do it again I have to re-learn.

I think that with help such as Danny offers that it will be a method that will "sink-in".
I personally feel very fortunate to not only having the oppertunity to get his help but
geeze man...where ya gonna find a nicer person that really cares?
Well I don't want to sound like a commercial but I'm looking forward to the trip.

Unfortunately, sounding good doesn't appear to be a priority in some of the newest music...