2014/02/09 19:17:04
michaelhanson
I wonder if you can do this with EZ Drummer? I have not seen a way to do this with Addictive Drums yet.
2014/02/09 22:24:46
Rimshot
EZ Drummer does not have the bounce function.
2014/02/10 14:33:03
Starise
Bat while I think you're onto something with the more direct approach I think it is also possible to mix with the mixer in some drum programs...or do both.
 
I use BFD and recently jumped off to try Addictive and Studio Drummer. I think the mixer in BFD is better. I set it up like a chain with sends to my channels in Sonar. In my thinking it's the best of both worlds. I experiment with dry tracks from BFD and sometimes I use the stuff in BFD or I might use whats available in Sonar. In any given project I might freeze and unfreeze multiple times to test different results. I like the flexibility of both and I don't think it affects the sound, at least with my software of choice.
 
What I hear you say is that it removes undesired coloration from the tracks. Maybe this is true in some cases but from my experiences it doesn't seem to make a big difference in sound quality. I can't say with Superior drummer. Maybe it's different. Now I am running my samples in 24 bit which might make a difference. Heck, between all of the send channels and the different ways you can set everything up in BFD I feel the only limitation is me.
 
I read some other comments about the drums on your tracks from others.  Armchair critics...that's all I'll say. That's pretty much what I am too, but I think the drums you have there are pretty darned good. I think you would be hard pressed to find a real drummer that can play like that in your area and if you could he would be expensive.
2014/02/11 09:03:04
Rimshot
Hey Starise, 
After following Bat's example, I do hear a difference between what comes out of the drum mixer and the wave files created after bounce.  I think that is what Bat is saying.  There seems to be much more of a direct sound to them and all mics can be separated on different tracks.  This then makes your mixer look like the channel setup used when they recorded the original kit.
 
I never thought there would be a difference but know that I can hear it first hand, I believe going through drum VST mixers may dilute the sound in some way.  It actually makes sense since a new layer in the path is added.
 
Rimshot
 
2014/02/11 12:07:53
batsbrew
RIMSHOT
what you experienced, is similar to my own....
i still like to hard EQ the snare and kick, but for the most part, i thought the sonics of the 24 bit capture in the triggered samples sounded so good, they needed no eq, or limiting, or compression.
 
 

makeshift
good argument for upgrading to superior. 
that's what i did, started with EZ, but once i got superior, i quit using ez altogether.
 
 

starise
none of the other drum programs that i've used (acid, bfd, studio) work or sound like superior.
so it's really not a good comparison.....

the idea of mixing thru 'program-specific' internal mixers, is a good one on paper...
but to my ears, cutting to the chase, getting the 'raw' samples at 24 bit provided in superior (with their exceptional captures), seems to free the sonics up quite a bit...
and it is more intuitive for me to mix them that way.
there is additional 'math' that is going on to run drum samples thru internal mixers, and then on to the 'main' sonar mixer.....
oh yea, as far as comments on my drum tracks, i mean, obviously purists, and myself included, would always rather use live drums......
but you are right, my tracks are pretty kicking, and some folks would argue the case just for the sport of it.
that's ok.
i know very few drummers that can play up to the standard i want, so i'll deal with programming the best drums i can.
2014/02/11 12:35:40
Starise
I am now curious as to if this is only a thing that happens with Superior Drummer. When I take the dry drums from my drum mixer I get good clean tight drums. 
 
What I hear you saying Bat is that  it was necessary to take some other measures because of limitations on your machine and that this resulted in you finding an even better solution. The drums do sound good! 
 
I think these internal drum mixers are all a little different...obviously, but I didn't think they were that different sound wise. FWIW I can route each of my mic channels from my BFD mixer into Sonar X3, so I can go dry or mix the mics in. I could  use a stereo channel for the mics but I usually feed it in mono. Tails can be controlled if that is wanted. Snare in, snare out, Kick inside,kick outside,Toms, rides,cymbals,percussion and then my three mic channels.My main is eliminated in the drum mixer as all channels are sent out and routed through the Main in Sonar.
 
The way I see these drum mixers is that for someone just starting out or someone who needs an uncomplicated mix it is possible to simply build an entire drum track from only the drum mixer and send it to a stereo channel in your DAW. Really a pretty ingenious approach to drum mixing and for someone who is trying to save cpu it can be a lifesaver. I notice a very small amount of noise on some inert plug-ins. I can almost swear that I hear a little something when I turn on the eq in pro channel with no adjustments to eq. I think it all adds a very small amount of something to the signal but it seems so small I can't really notice it in any big way.
 
I'm thinking that adding any kind of gain stage might add a little something I usually don't notice unless I specifically listen for it.
 
2014/02/12 00:56:24
Kev999
batsbrew
what I hear... between 16 bit and 24 bit...
it's hard to describe....
but it's more "3-D"
i hear more......depth.

 
Whenever I listen to a 16-bit sample by itself in isolation, it usually sounds ok.  But I find that several different 16-bit sounds blended together never sound as good as 24-bit.
2014/02/12 11:02:50
batsbrew
those bits DO matter!
 
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