I am now happily playing drums in a jazz quartet.  We have two guitars, upright bass and drums.  
We just started recording a CD.  I setup my Zoom R24 with mics in one of the member's teaching studio.
I have been listening to a lot of jazz from 50's to current and especially noting mic techniques.  
 
I learned that for many of the older jazz albums, drums were miced with one overhead and kick.  Then snare and hi-hat was added later by some.  For the most part, the drums are not recorded or mixed with a wide stereo image.  They are kept pretty much in mono.  Each instrument of the group having their own "space" in the stereo field.
 
The kind of jazz we are doing with two guitars (no keys, horns, reeds) is like Wes Montgomery.  
 
I captured the drums with two mics in XY pattern for the overheads, snare, HH, and kick.  I put 57's on the guitar amps, and took the upright bass direct.  We all played without headphones in a room about 12x12.
 
My rough mixes are sounding really good.  I have tried reducing the stereo field of the drums to mimic old school but it sounds so much better keeping the hard panning like I would do a rock kit.  
 
Any advice on production in the 2014 era?  Do you think I have to stick to the old sound or let the instruments shine the best they can using normal modern techniques?
 
Sorry for the long post.  
 
Jimmy
 

Rimshot
I am now happily playing drums in a jazz quartet.  We have two guitars, upright bass and drums.  
We just started recording a CD.  I setup my Zoom R24 with mics in one of the member's teaching studio.
I have been listening to a lot of jazz from 50's to current and especially noting mic techniques.  
 
I learned that for many of the older jazz albums, drums were miced with one overhead and kick.  Then snare and hi-hat was added later by some.  For the most part, the drums are not recorded or mixed with a wide stereo image.  They are kept pretty much in mono.  Each instrument of the group having their own "space" in the stereo field.
 
The kind of jazz we are doing with two guitars (no keys, horns, reeds) is like Wes Montgomery.  
 
I captured the drums with two mics in XY pattern for the overheads, snare, HH, and kick.  I put 57's on the guitar amps, and took the upright bass direct.  We all played without headphones in a room about 12x12.
 
My rough mixes are sounding really good.  I have tried reducing the stereo field of the drums to mimic old school but it sounds so much better keeping the hard panning like I would do a rock kit.  
 
Any advice on production in the 2014 era?  Do you think I have to stick to the old sound or let the instruments shine the best they can using normal modern techniques?
 
Sorry for the long post.  
 
Jimmy
 

Hi Jimmy,
 
Personally, I think you should go with the production of today's times as often as possible. The reason being, sometimes when you get into a project, you realize "darn it, I should have done this that and this". It's nothing to just mute something out and go old school, know what I mean? But it's impossible to put something back into the performance.
 
When I record jazz stuff here, the main thing is room ambiance. We need it live, but we also need control of the instruments. So when I do it, everyone gets a mic on them. I can always mute like I said. Mid-side recording techniques are great....and having everything mic'd is great too. It depends what you want.
 
Me being a control freak, everything get's mic'd then I mic the room and for drums I sometimes mic a little further away than I would a rock kit. I like to get as on top of a kit as possible for rock...then enhance with some room if need be...but with rock TODAY, we go for that up front sound instead of the roomy John Bonham type sound.
 
From there with the mics a few inches further, I DI the guitars as well as mic them. Then we go for room mics at medium range, and two at the back of the room. Sometimes the jazz band wants to play all in the same room....I'll attack it the exact same way. Other times, we have the drums in our main room, the guitars in our other room or sometimes in our iso booth. I wouldn't normally put a jazz player's cab in an iso booth unless we were trying to capture something specific.
 
Also, the quality of the mics you use can make a difference for the worst. Meaning, really good mics can sometimes make Jazz more sterile. We want it as natural as possible....and to me, the music/playing needs to speak to me the most. I remember doing a few Jazz projects with super good mic's all over. It sounded really good...but also a bit too clean. There are times when we want a little dirt under our production finger nails....for the littler jazz bands like your quartet, I'd go with decent mics over choosing great mics, mic all the instruments, get plenty of room sound, and subtract any printed tracks that you don't feel compliment the band. You never go wrong with having a little more than you wanted. Especially since it's so easy to edit these days as well as "mute". Good luck brother....hope this helps. :)
 
-Danny

Just because older Jazz albums were recorded a certain way it does not mean we have to record the same way now. Although it pays to have older recording techniques embedded within newer ones so you have got options to fall back on. eg close micing a kit but having the overheads there too in case only that sound can be uised in the mix.
 
You have got to look at the Jazz itself and how it is sounding now. Today there are far more rock/latin oriented grooves and odd times. Jazz kick drums can go down lower and be a little more close miced. Depends on the groove to an extent. If its open ride swing grooves for example then the overhead sound is a better choice there.
 
I have produced a few Jazz productions myself. I have approached them differently to suit the style more. Funky things for example go well with modern production techniques. I just recorded an ensemble the other day with my son, a piano player who could just as easily played a weighted action Kurzweil and I would have got a perfect direct sound. It starts sounding produced once you put a nice reverb on it. I ended up micing an upright from the back and close to the hammers for the more percussive sound too. Pianos can vary in their recording approach with micing and sound.
 
For this recording the bass was an electric/acoustic instrument. A thick hollow body bass shaped like a guitar but all electrics. He had a nice Manley valve Direct Injection box. Very Jazzy player (modern too) but electric instrument there. I have recorded many acoustic basses too and in the studio it is about getting a nice baffle thing going and isolating the sound while maintaining eye contact.
 
Guitar amps miced and direct too as the VST options now are staggering for later production. With all the horns and things you can mic reasonably close and in front but it is also nice to get an overall room sound when something like this is going on. Good Jazz musicians are good at balancing themselves in a room so the ambient sound is always much better. It is softer music in general too making it nicer and easier in many respects.
 
It is still better to put all the Jazz musicians in one room too and avoid headphones if you can to maximise the live playing and feel of everything. You can also get a lot of direct signals at the same time as some ambient versions of the same performance to use later if needed.

Danny Danzi

Rimshot
I am now happily playing drums in a jazz quartet.  We have two guitars, upright bass and drums.  
We just started recording a CD.  I setup my Zoom R24 with mics in one of the member's teaching studio.
I have been listening to a lot of jazz from 50's to current and especially noting mic techniques.  
 
I learned that for many of the older jazz albums, drums were miced with one overhead and kick.  Then snare and hi-hat was added later by some.  For the most part, the drums are not recorded or mixed with a wide stereo image.  They are kept pretty much in mono.  Each instrument of the group having their own "space" in the stereo field.
 
The kind of jazz we are doing with two guitars (no keys, horns, reeds) is like Wes Montgomery.  
 
I captured the drums with two mics in XY pattern for the overheads, snare, HH, and kick.  I put 57's on the guitar amps, and took the upright bass direct.  We all played without headphones in a room about 12x12.
 
My rough mixes are sounding really good.  I have tried reducing the stereo field of the drums to mimic old school but it sounds so much better keeping the hard panning like I would do a rock kit.  
 
Any advice on production in the 2014 era?  Do you think I have to stick to the old sound or let the instruments shine the best they can using normal modern techniques?
 
Sorry for the long post.  
 
Jimmy
 

Hi Jimmy,
 
Personally, I think you should go with the production of today's times as often as possible. The reason being, sometimes when you get into a project, you realize "darn it, I should have done this that and this". It's nothing to just mute something out and go old school, know what I mean? But it's impossible to put something back into the performance.
 
When I record jazz stuff here, the main thing is room ambiance. We need it live, but we also need control of the instruments. So when I do it, everyone gets a mic on them. I can always mute like I said. Mid-side recording techniques are great....and having everything mic'd is great too. It depends what you want.
 
Me being a control freak, everything get's mic'd then I mic the room and for drums I sometimes mic a little further away than I would a rock kit. I like to get as on top of a kit as possible for rock...then enhance with some room if need be...but with rock TODAY, we go for that up front sound instead of the roomy John Bonham type sound.
 
From there with the mics a few inches further, I DI the guitars as well as mic them. Then we go for room mics at medium range, and two at the back of the room. Sometimes the jazz band wants to play all in the same room....I'll attack it the exact same way. Other times, we have the drums in our main room, the guitars in our other room or sometimes in our iso booth. I wouldn't normally put a jazz player's cab in an iso booth unless we were trying to capture something specific.
 
Also, the quality of the mics you use can make a difference for the worst. Meaning, really good mics can sometimes make Jazz more sterile. We want it as natural as possible....and to me, the music/playing needs to speak to me the most. I remember doing a few Jazz projects with super good mic's all over. It sounded really good...but also a bit too clean. There are times when we want a little dirt under our production finger nails....for the littler jazz bands like your quartet, I'd go with decent mics over choosing great mics, mic all the instruments, get plenty of room sound, and subtract any printed tracks that you don't feel compliment the band. You never go wrong with having a little more than you wanted. Especially since it's so easy to edit these days as well as "mute". Good luck brother....hope this helps. :)
 
-Danny

Much thanks Danny.  I was hoping to hear this affirmation.  I too believe in using the best tools possible in the best way but was not sure if others felt the same when it came to jazz. 
I have some really basic mics so not even a choice there.  Your response helped.  When I am done, I will post some snippets of the group.  It is sounding really "cool"!
 
Jimmy
 

Jazz guitarist Jim Hall passed recently. He was known as a guitarist's guitarist. He was regarded as a player that had an amazing sense of touch. He was a player that let the songs take the limelight.
 
One of the eulogies I heard on the radio featured a quote that Mr. Hall had shared with the person speaking. He said something to the effect that "I play through an guitar amp so that I may play more softly".
 
When I heard that statement it made me smile and I appreciated having had the opportunity to hear a thought like that voiced so clearly.
 
I don't know how that applies to the original question, but it may, so I thought I'd pass it along.
 
:-)

Jeff Evans
Just because older Jazz albums were recorded a certain way it does not mean we have to record the same way now. Although it pays to have older recording techniques embedded within newer ones so you have got options to fall back on. eg close micing a kit but having the overheads there too in case only that sound can be uised in the mix.
 
You have got to look at the Jazz itself and how it is sounding now. Today there are far more rock/latin oriented grooves and odd times. Jazz kick drums can go down lower and be a little more close miced. Depends on the groove to an extent. If its open ride swing grooves for example then the overhead sound is a better choice there.
 
I have produced a few Jazz productions myself. I have approached them differently to suit the style more. Funky things for example go well with modern production techniques. I just recorded an ensemble the other day with my son, a piano player who could just as easily played a weighted action Kurzweil and I would have got a perfect direct sound. It starts sounding produced once you put a nice reverb on it. I ended up micing an upright from the back and close to the hammers for the more percussive sound too. Pianos can vary in their recording approach with micing and sound.
 
For this recording the bass was an electric/acoustic instrument. A thick hollow body bass shaped like a guitar but all electrics. He had a nice Manley valve Direct Injection box. Very Jazzy player (modern too) but electric instrument there. I have recorded many acoustic basses too and in the studio it is about getting a nice baffle thing going and isolating the sound while maintaining eye contact.
 
Guitar amps miced and direct too as the VST options now are staggering for later production. With all the horns and things you can mic reasonably close and in front but it is also nice to get an overall room sound when something like this is going on. Good Jazz musicians are good at balancing themselves in a room so the ambient sound is always much better. It is softer music in general too making it nicer and easier in many respects.
 
It is still better to put all the Jazz musicians in one room too and avoid headphones if you can to maximise the live playing and feel of everything. You can also get a lot of direct signals at the same time as some ambient versions of the same performance to use later if needed.

Hi Jeff!  Hows your world treating you down under?  Thanks for your feedback.  We did record without headphones and that really helped because none of the other players are studio cats.  I will have to use some room simulation because we were in such a small space to begin with. 
 
Jimmy
 

Mike it is relevant. Some guitar players like to play louder even in a Jazz situation and others like the soft approach and so do I most times. It just sounds sweet and under stated. Tone is really good as well usually in these circumstances. The amount of unnecessary loud sounds escaping and getting into other sensitive mics is greatly reduced. Leaving you with nice multis with great separation on all of the tracks.
 
Be careful adding too much room sound to the overall thing. It can quickly cloud the situaton slightly. Make it short spaces as well and maybe just a tiny hint. A lot of Jazz sounds good with tight and low if at all reverbs. You just hear the detail under thee conditions.

Hi Jimmy,
 I was just reading the Wayne Peet interview in the latest edition of Tape Op magazine and he shared his opinion about recording and mixing Jazz. He describes how certain sounds that have seemingly become considered the "traditional" jazz sounds were actually revolutionary in character. He goes so far as to compare some of the classic Blue Note recordings to the punk rock aesthetic. He discusses how some of the early to late sixties records have edits that are obvious if you listen for them, but seem to be accepted today as exemplifying the sound of traditional small ensemble live jazz recordings.
 
 He doesn't elaborate too deeply on the subject but it seems like his ideas are thought provoking and so I suggest that you seek out a copy of the interview and see how, or if, it inspires your endeavors.
 
 best regards,
mike

mike_mccue
Hi Jimmy,
 I was just reading the Wayne Peet interview in the latest edition of Tape Op magazine and he shared his opinion about recording and mixing Jazz. He describes how certain sounds that have seemingly become considered the "traditional" jazz sounds were actually revolutionary in character. He goes so far as to compare some of the classic Blue Note recordings to the punk rock aesthetic. He discusses how some of the early to late sixties records have edits that are obvious if you listen for them, but seem to be accepted today as exemplifying the sound of traditional small ensemble live jazz recordings.
 
 He doesn't elaborate too deeply on the subject but it seems like his ideas are thought provoking and so I suggest that you seek out a copy of the interview and see how, or if, it inspires your endeavors.
 
 best regards,
mike

Hi Mike, 
 
Thanks much for your comments and directing me to the article.  As a result, I joined Tape Op and am now downloading the recent mag.  Greatly appreciate!
 
Jimmy

I don't know much about jazz but I think a nice, modern stereo spread on drums wouldn't hurt.  That being said I recorded a stripped down blues/jazz number for my guitarist and a nice jazz drummer came in after the rhythm tracks.  I recorded his stripped down kit (bass, high hat and snare) in mono, along w/ some extra cymbols he did on another take.  Sounded good and mono fit right into the ethos - tho it was turned way down.  That to me is more of a key for 'Old" sounding jazz (or anything).  Drums today are more upfront and louder.
 
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