One has to remember that they could not record the drums very loud back in the old days. The technology could not cope with that well and the record groove had some problems dealing with it too.
 
The music determines how things are recorded and mixed today. If its really a modern Jazz tune that embodies Rock and Latin grooves for example the drums probably need to be up front more. More interesting to hear the detail now in what the drums are doing.
 
If its an old school style ie straight ahead swing then sure the drums can be recorded and mixed quite differently. Be careful with spaced pairs too with the OHeads. XY co-incident is usually much better. Snares and hats don't have to be miked for the old school sound and just a litte kick. Older school Jazz drummers like their kicks tuned up much higher with an open sound. For more modern grooves it tends to be slightly more rocky in its sound.
 
Problem is people don't understand the word Jazz and what it actually means. It means everything now and covers every style and groove unlike it did many years ago when it was much more restricted to a certain way of playing. The harmony (progression) and melody lines really dictate the style.
 
Miles Davis led the charge. Check out the grooves on all those amazing 80's albums. Chick Corea's Elektric band is Jazz too if you really want to get down to it.
 
The good news is that modern technology and approaches can now move with the times and keep up with what Jazz is doing now.
 

I disagree. 1" 2 track tape had gobs of head room. The pre amps used back then did too.


Lots of latin bands know how to have a smoking percussion section that plays a supporting role.


Jazz is only considered to be about melody and harmony when folks marginalize the idea that Jazz has always been about feel. That is why you find so many virtoustic players struggling to define music that is technically adept and harmonically complex as jazz while no one listening is tapping their foot.

I think its important to keep on topic again. Going back to the OP I think it comes down to the music and what sort of Jazz they are playing. That is the key in a way to the production approach. For example in your OP you mention drums, acoustic bass and guitars. So it sounds like it could be a bit more old school style wise which is fine of course.
 
The only thing I would do differently from what you have mentioned in your OP is not take the acoustic bass direct. Try to mic the bass. Yes you will get a bit of spill but if you are careful you can keep it under control and it sort of becomes your friend. Some baffling around the bass goes a long way too.
 
Cloes micing the amps is OK and for drums the OH sound plus a little kick is going to sound nice too. Make sure people are not playing over loud as well. That can get you into trouble.
 
But then again if they are playing a pretty modern tune and the grooves are getting away from swing (rock or fusion based) and the acoustic player is playing a very funky line etc then a different approach may be needed to capture that. Drums may sound better up close and the DI from the bass would be good in that scenario. Think music first, approach second.

I agree that the mix should reflect the taste and interest of the musicians.
 
I'm also a big fan of putting a nice mic on a an acoustic bass.
 
Finally, the only way to get a good live recording in a 12 x 12 room is if the musicians want to get a good recording. Which is to say that the musicians will have to acknowledge what is possible in such a small room and play appropriately. Placing and relying on close mics will not rescue a situation if the room get's swamped with volume and the key here is that the drummer will have to set the reference and the other players will respond in kind. In other words, every one is going to have to show each other a lot of respect and give each other as much space as they can share so that every one can play in balance and create a whole that remains detailed and musical. I am confident that Jimmy and his friends are already thinking like this so I just mention it as a reminder and a topic for discussion.
 
With a room that small I would think that close mic'ing the drums will have a great benefit because even though I personally have a taste for and favor the sound of players playing in a room that reminds me of a live venue I think that it will be difficult to use the drum overheads if you have 2 guitar amps and a bass in there. 12x12 is small for a drum room if it is a "live" room (rather than a dead room) and squeezing the other players in only exasperates the issue.
 
Anyways... just some opinions from a guy that really loves listening to jazz that makes your foot tap. :-)
 
best regards,
mike
 
 

With regards to my earlier comment, which is a reaction to the idea "Problem is people don't understand", I'd like to point out that Louis Armstrong could play the very same note over and over and over again and leave listeners gasping with elation. That feeling is why people came up with the name "Jazz". There's a lot more to it than just melody and harmony. :-)
 
A lot of the stuff people play should just be called "music". ;-)
 
For example; I saw Mr. Davis play 4 times in the '80s. He never seemed to enjoy a moment of it. He just wanted to kick some ass and he seemed to regard his audience as being "the problem". I'm glad I saw him play but I sure wish I had a chance to see him play some Jazz instead of the coke fueled anger management therapy he was exercising at the time.
 
For example; I also got to see Mr. Gillepsie play a concert once back in 1985. He seemed old and had been there and done that but he was kind enough to share some Jazz with us and I will be eternally grateful. :-)
 
I don't think there is a lot to understand or not understand and I certainly don't think there is a "problem".
 
Most musicians tend to follow their muse and do what interests them, luckily we have recording technologies so that musicians can connect with people that appreciate their ideas over the span of both distance and time.
 
Good times!
 
best regards,
mike
 
 
 
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I agree with the concept of keeping things down lower in a small room. But interesting to note is that I have had amazing success at isloating drums in a small room even with others in there too. I recently did a recording of my son playing in a trio with a piano player and electric bass player in the room. I just used a pair of 451's as drum OHeads, had them slightly out the front and lower but angled down towards the snare. I got amazing separation on the drums. Literally no other instruments in there.
 
Those Rode NT5's are also amazing at doing this too for some reason. I have recorded loud rock bands in a small room in my sound production teaching and got a very similar result.
 
It is one thing to listen to Jazz but quite another to play it well. I have a lot of experience as a player and you sort of see it from another perspective. People tend to simplify it a bit but it is not until you really get down to playing it you actually realise how difficult it is to do.
 
You can certainly enjoy it though without playing it. As the amazing Frank Gambale once said:
 
 
"Being an artist carries with it an inexorable responsibility to use the God-given talent we have been given to the best of our abilities. The artist's responsibility also is to contribute to the beauty in the world and to provide the soundtrack to the lives of those who know nothing of music only that it affects them deeply" 
 
Frank Gambale 

Jeff and Mike, 
 
We did a nice live recording today which I rough mixed and am listening to now as I type.  
I brought the XY overheads into the cymbal/tom area a little closer which then did not have the XY pattern anymore but it turned out nice and gave more definition to the toms.  
 
The bass continues to go direct because we are in a small remove.  We had a clarinet player into today and I used a 57 on him.  It really sounded good and I added some new Valhala reverb (which I downloaded today) to all the instruments and it made the room sound larger with more warmth.
 
I can't wait to post some final mixes of this stuff.  I love live jazz recording and mixing.  
We are playing a bunch of old standards so yeah I call it jazz and they do to!  
 
All the best to you.
 
Jimmy

Hi Jimmy I am really glad that you are enjoying the process of working with Jazz players. It is a nice experience. I have done a lot of it over the years. It is even better when the players are world class too. All twice as easy in terms of recording and mixing.
 
Jazz musicians seem to know how to balance themselves rather well and they are good listeners too. They listen naturally because Jazz is a language that involves everyone speaking and somehow they seem to know when to speak and when not to speak. That adds clarity to the recording process.
 
As I mentioned before be careful adding too large a reverb on things. Jazz is usually quite an intimate thing (smaller ensembles in small clubs etc) and most often performed in places where there is little or no reverb at all. Don't be afraid to make the recording that way as well. Can you see that black backdrop behind the music.

I look forward to listening to it Jimmy!

"Jazz musicians seem to know how to balance themselves rather well and they are good listeners too. They listen naturally because Jazz is a language that involves everyone speaking and somehow they seem to know when to speak and when not to speak. That adds clarity to the recording process."
 
Mr. Marsallis describes Jazz Music as a series of "negotiations" between the participants. :-)