• Techniques
  • Need mixing advice for an instrumental song.
2012/12/22 21:26:50
Fendicator
Hello fellow Cakewalk program users
I'm looking to get some advice on recording/techniques, ideas and suggestions.
I am currently working on my second album and I'm try and get it to sound as good as possible.
Here is one song I have done, it's an instrumental. (http://soundcloud.com/fendicator/t25)
 
Programs used:
Sonar x2
Amplitube 3 (rhythm, lead and bass guitars)
ezdrummer (metal machine, TAMA drum setup)
 
My current mix settings are:
Rhythm Guitars are double tracked, 80% left and right.
Bass Guitar is 20% left
Drums are 20% right
Lead Guitar is 0% (Center)
I added EQ with prochannel to the Guitars and drums.
I added compression with prochannel to the drums to give them more life.
 
I'm needing some fresh ears to listen to this track.
I'm wondering if I should try and get the bass and drums to the center or
maybe pan them out more? Should I add compression to the guitars,
and how would I go about doing that? I can hear the compression changing the drums, but
when it comes to guitars I can't hear much of a change at all.
 
If you have any suggestions, comments or advice I would love to hear them.
2012/12/22 21:40:54
Jeff Evans
Hi Jeremy, I am hearing all guitars and not much else. Drums seem to be lost and way back. Bass or something low in the rhythm guitars is booming badly and low boomy notes seem to jump out at random.

I would start by getting a big kick ass cracker drum sound happening first and then work on the bass and get that and the drums really pumping no guitars at this point. Send the drum sounds to a drum buss and get some eq and compression (perhaps parallel happening on those)

Then get the rhythm guitars sounding big and clear and fat and possibly get some imaging happening on those. At this point you should have a powerful drum, bass and rhythm guitar thing happening. Turn your monitors down low here too. Can you still hear those three things clearly, if you cannot then something is wrong and out of balance.

The lead sound like a vocal should be clear and easily heard. Try turning your monitors way down low when setting the lead level into everything else. You will find easier to get the level right.

So I guess you have to pull all the faders down and start again from scratch.
2012/12/22 21:52:47
Fendicator
Yeah the booming is from the rhythm guitars, I had the bass tone set at 10 with no mid on the left side. The right side was 8.0 with 1.0 mid. I just changed the bass tone to 5.0(left side setting) and 5.5 (right side setting) after I read that. I was thinking something was too bassy.
2012/12/22 22:22:21
Guitarhacker
I'm with Jeff on this ....all I hear are guitars....... seriously distorted guitars. It really does not sound ready at all for an album. There is much work to be done. 

start at square one.  Turn everything down....delete ALL plugs. 

Get the drums sounding natural.... then add the bass. 

once you get that sounding good...... add guitars, and keep it sounding clean... even if the guitars have distortion.  You should be able to CLEARLY hear each instrument in the mix. if not..... you are not getting the mix right.

When things get cluttered up, the only solution is to go back to square one.

Add plugs and FX ONLY if they are needed and improve the sound of the mix. 

More than one time I have spent several hours mixing only to realize I have a total mess and must return to square one..... so I delete all the envelopes, all the FX and zero all faders and start again. I have learned how to detect when I'm headed in that direction and how to stop and reverse it but it doesn't hurt my feelings one bit to start over... it's all about getting the right mix.
2012/12/22 22:31:16
LpMike75
I would pan the Bass and Kick and snare up the center.  The rest of the drum kit can be panned as if you are looking at it (some prefer to pan them from the drummers perspective).

In your song, I would High Pass filter the guitars with an EQ.   One great tip is, decide what instruments are important in the low range, and try to limit the others instruments down there by either 1) arrangement and 2) EQ (high pass filter).

The low end builds up and gets muddy quickly with too much going on down there.  Your Bass guitar is not going to sit right if the guitars are taking up all the low end.    To sum up - HP filter the guitars, then refer to Jeff's post above

My 2 cents
2012/12/23 00:06:49
Fendicator
Ok here is my 2nd try at it. 2nd try 
 
I turned the bass tones down on my guitars, turned up the bass to match the drums better. Did a slight change in EQ to the drums so the snare had more snap to it. I added some image width to the rhythm guitars, then brought all faders down and back up to try and get it all to sit right.
 
I feel this try does sound much better, but I think it still needs work. I would love to hear further input after this try. The first bunch of suggestions were awesome :).
2012/12/23 00:39:43
Jeff Evans
OK second try still needs a lot of work. Still no drums, no kick, no hats just a distant snare. You need to turn everything off and work the drums up into a great sounding kit. I want to hear all parts of the drum set clearly and with punch etc.. 

Bass needs some work. I am wanting to hear a great percussive drums vibe combined with a good solid bass sound working in conjunction with the drums. You should be able to just listen to drums and bass and you have got the engine room of this track happening. 

Rhythm guitars need to sound big and supportive and the lead on top of all that. It is a lot to get right I understand.

If you have got drums in your song or piece you need to hear them. They must not apologise for being there. They need to smack you around a bit! Of course this does vary depending on the music but in this case they need to form a solid foundation.

Listen to some commercial music of a similar vibe and hear how big and great the drums still sound even after a wall of guitars are present. They don't get lost. Listen to how the bass line is still clear and easy to follow.
2012/12/23 06:27:32
Kalle Rantaaho
Turning the guitar bass knobs down won't do. You need to use high pass filtering, as mentioned by others earlier.
Try something between 120-150 Hz.

"I'm wondering if I should try and get the bass and drums to the center or  maybe pan them out more?"


No need to wonder. As also mentioned already, put kick and bass dead center, that's without question the way to go unless you really know what you're doing and are aiming at some special effect.
2012/12/23 09:40:19
Guitarhacker
I listened to a snippit of try #2. 

Go back to square one and build it starting with the drums. 

Man, even country music these days is based on some serious drums and bass..... they are the foundation of the music upon which everything else rests and relies. 

Attend a concert and I'll bet the kick drum and bass is shaking the building.

Don't over do the foundation but it has to be there and like Jeff said.... it's not apologizing for it's presence in the song. 

Everyone here is telling you basically the same thing..... start with the drums. Bass is second....then bring in the guitars and at all times, do not lose the foundation of the bass and drums in the mix. 
2012/12/25 17:50:29
Fendicator
Alrighty, I have done all the changes that everyone has suggested and here is try number 3.
 
http://soundcloud.com/fendicator/t25-3
 
I added a HP filter to the guitars, did more with the drums to make them sound better. I actually went back and re-recorded the bass and brought it up in the mix so it should be hearable now, I think. Hopefully this 3rd time is the charm, I doubt it though. I feel something is still missing, just not sure what? Something is too loud or not loud enough, not really sure. I need your guys ears agian :).
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