I am not to fond of the sound of an under powered integrated circuit, so when I use gear that has them stacked end to end I try to bring stuff in as clean as possible to avoid emphasizing that sound character.
 
There are so many ways to get stuff done and do it well... 
 
If you are really curious about a hardware compressor and you are going to get to learn about it then it seems like buying a compressor that you'll enjoy for years would be a good start. If you find that using the insert patch on your desk sounds good to you then you will not have to re-patch all the time. If you try it the other way and enjoy the sound better then that's good too. Either way, you'll end up with something nice.
 
If you buy a 4 banger compressor it's going to sound like utility compression and color your sound with goo. Maybe you will hear it, or maybe you will not.
 
There is no way to build a compressor out of less parts than a pre amp. Think about what you like about your pre amps and then figure that a compressor of similar quality will cost a bit more than the pre amps you like.
 
One of the most influential parts of a free standing pre amp (or any audio device) is it's power supply. The dedicated power supply for one or two channels is a huge factor in the sound quality you get from a free standing rack unit pre amp.
 
Consider this: A small desktop console uses a tiny little power supply. The X32 uses 1 amp at 120vAC or 120 watts. A classic NEVE console will suck up 1500 to 3000 watts for the same basic signal routing and signal flow layout.
 
Both consoles do the same thing... one has a lot more power to get the job done.
 
It's the same deal with rack gear. When you shove 4 channels into 1 rack unit the power supply gets stretched thin. When you consider that a compressor has more active parts than a preamp... the power supply is stretched even thinner.
 
What does this mean? it means you don't have much head room. It means you can't run those rack mount preamps so hot that they are doing their "warm" thing... you have to back off and baby the line inputs on the desktop console so they don't sound over worked... then, if you have to use the gain on the desktop console to send to the compressor via an insert you are using a gain stage that could enjoy more power to get the sound to your compressor... then when you return from your compressor you'll have to be fairly conservative because, once again, you are sending sound to a under powered integrated circuit (remember, the big consoles that the small ones are copies of use 10x the power for the same basic signal flow) and if you do it all really well you'll have a good clean sound but it will have 2 extra stages of the signature integrated circuit "color".
 
It's a "color" that most people have gotten so used to hearing that they don't hear it anymore.
 
Anyways... someones going to come along and tell you I am full o stuff, :-) but this, in a nut shell is why guys still build full size consoles for guys that buy them, and why small time guys buy a couple channels of adequately powered gear from guys that are passionate about making that stuff. It happens because people think it makes a difference they can hear. Someones gonna come along and tell you I'm full of stuff about that too. :-)
 
Please understand that I am merely saying that if you want to go for it then don't fool around. Get your self something nice. If you don't have the money just now... save up, and rest assured that the cheap, generic, in the box effect tools are really, really, really good and you should feel confident that you can do great things with them with out spending money on low grade hardware OR fancy name brand digital effects.
 
Good luck. Have fun! I hope you let your curiosity lead you to first hand experiences so you can form your own opinions about what you, personally, enjoy.
 
all the best,
mike
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Great comments Mike. This thread has really exceeded (by a mile) my expectations for what I would get from a simple question. I really appreciate everyone taking time to share their experience. Threads usually make me irritated, this one has really made me re-think my plans, so - thanks to all.
 
Mike, I'm fascinated by your comments on the power draw of components. I'd argue with you on this, but it would be from a position of (largely) ignorance. Is power supply that important?

hgj1357
Great contribution Danny. A lot of useful stuff in there.  Myself, I've been recording on and off for 30 years. But more accurately, for one year 30 times - as I never seem to progress much! I am determined to develop my skills and equipment and while I realize that I can't just emulate everything someone else does, it does help sometimes to simply be told what to do.
 
Is there much difference between using a compressor after the external preamp and before the digital mixing desk, and using the compressor as an insert on the desk directly after the mixing desk internal preamp (set to 0 db gain)? If so, then this changes my position a bit. My reasoning for wanting a 4-ch outboard was convenience - not having to re-patch each preamp into a single ch comp.  If I can insert an outboard comp on any track with ease then I could get a 1 ch comp for color (a WA76 perhaps) and maybe use the X32's internal comps for clean compression - and add external comps slowly over time as needed.

The first thing we need to find out is why you're not progressing and why you may not be getting what you're hoping for. I'll tell you this....and I mean it, the way you print is more important than how you process after. Meaning, with good tones and good recording paths or mic's going to disc, you get out of it what you put in. I don't feel the same way when using expensive pre's and loads of outboard compression. I can give you sites on the net where they have taken the time to do extensive testing only to find out the inexpensive gear was either right with the super pricey stuff, or the majority like the cheaper stuff better. I have not heard one piece of expensive gear that was worth the price you pay for it compared to something cheaper that does the same sort of processing. You'll hear differences, yes...but not $1000's of dollars worth in MY opinion.
 
I think what I'd do if I were you would be to grab a few decent compressors that allow you to condition a signal so you don't have any peaks when you record. This will also tighten up your signal and don't go too nuts buying anything right now. From there, find out if your problem may be what you're actually tracking. Honest when I tell ya hg, I can track something using just about nothing and still give you acceptable results using a Realtek soundcard and minimal gear. I've done it several times and have been quite happy with what I've done. Is it better than when I use my full out gear? No, but it's different and still in the right ballpark.
 
I would think that you probably have a good grasp on this stuff having been involved off and on for 30 years. BUT, if you are not quite happy with your results or are not progressing like you hope, we need to find out why. Buying gear won't solve that problem as much as pointing you in the right direction, know what I mean? You may not need anything other than someone to tell you what to listen for or tell you where you may be possibly going in the wrong direction. Pricey pre's and outboard comps won't help problems like that. Drop a few tunes on us sometime and let's see what you're getting. We may be able to save you some money and help you out. :)
 
Makeshift: Yeah, that Behringer is so good for my guitars and even on vocals. I honestly was embarrassed to tell people about that until I found out other engineers felt the same as me. LOL! The 163's aren't anything to brag about really. The reason being, they're over-easy compressors and don't have anything but a threshold slider. So you're limited with them. As long as you don't use much (they can pump/breathe if you remove more than -4 dB of gain) they aren't too bad, but I barely use much of them these days. The Behringer's are much better sounding to me for the light conditioning thing.
 
-Danny

Hg, I forgot to answer your question!!! So sorry!
 
You asked: "Is there much difference between using a compressor after the external preamp and before the digital mixing desk, and using the compressor as an insert on the desk directly after the mixing desk internal preamp (set to 0 db gain)?"
 
That's pretty much like asking "should I use a flanger before my reverb or a verb before my flange" in a guitar signal. The answer is...it really depends on the sound you are going for. If you use a comp after the pre, you are compressing the pre. If you use the compressor before the pre, you are pre-amping your compressor and will get a different sound.
 
If you are using a compressor in an insert in a console (this is how I do it) I like this method the best. BUT, you have to watch how much pre you use as it will make the compressor react more to where it will be more sensitive as more signal is fed into it. Depending on how much threshold and ratio you have will determine how much compression will be present based off of the signal through the board.
 
For example, when I use my outboard comps, I use them in the insert of either my Tascam DM 4800 or my Mackie 32x8. Neither have great pre's like the Midas in the X32, but they get me to -6 dB peak and that's all I want them to do. But anyway, at -6 dB on my LED, this pushes into the compressor which in turn starts to give me a gain reduction amount. The more pre amp signal I use, the more gain reduction I get out of using very little threshold. So you have to be careful. Most times I'm taking away around -1.8 to -2 dB of gain where the -2 light flickers from time to time at a ratio of 1.5:1 or 2:1. That's really light. I may run the threshold at -5 to -8 which is super light, but because of the pre pushing into the comp, you have to watch how much push you actually use. This is why I use such low ratios and low thresholds. I'm just conditioning to disc, not really going for my final compression setting.
 
Hope that helps a bit. :)
 
-Danny

hgj1357
Mike, ... Is power supply that important?

I think it depends on if you can hear the difference.
 
I am not the only one who thinks so.
 
Take for example your Radial preamp. I assume that you enjoy it. You may also enjoy reading Radial's explanations of why they think their 500 power rack is a good power supply choice for theirs and everyone else's 500 modules.
 
Another example; Warm uses the external supplies. They save a lot of money doing so, and if you were to phone them and ask them why you can learn that it is actually a very clever and cost effective way to get the best power supply value for their target price point. Rupert Neve does the same thing with his latest top of the line rack gear for the same reason.
 
best regards,
mike
 
 
 

A useful analogy for power supplies is a car.  Sure, a 120 hp gas saver will drive a car the speedlimit (and more) and have OK pickup.  But a bigger engine will drive quicker and faster smoother, haul a bigger load and not get passed by semis driving in the Rockies.  It doesn't mean a smaller power supply is bad, but it is likelier to have problems at the margins.  RND Neve does use an external wall wart power supply in most of their units, but in the Portico II he uses an internal supply running 54 volt rails.  Plenty of power.  And on the new Shelford's he uses a separate power supply that runs from several hundred $ on up, depending on how many units you plan on running at once.  Power does matter.
 
External wall warts are used since it is cheaper for export purposes.  You don't have to get your hardware unit approved for every standard in the world - just use an appropriate off-the-shelf external power supply which is already approved.  There is also the noise factor - internal power supplies have to be carefully designed and shielded to prevent noise.  This too saves money.  The Warm preamp uses a wall wart and it has never caused me a problem.  The Warm Tone Beast uses a wall wart (actually, both are lump-in-line) although Bryce tried to use an internal one since it was a full rack width.  I have a prototype w/ the internal supply and there is no practical noise - but he thought it would be better to have an external one.  I use it as part of a stereo unit w/ a second external powered unit - with no second thoughts.  I wouldn't on an orchestral recording or something very delicate, but you'll have more self noise in your system than the TB internal gives, and more room noise recording most stuff.
 
In short, power does matter, but it ain't the only thing.  Most pro units use internal power, but they also use the best components throughout, sturdier metal work, etc. etc.  That is why they cost so much and how they can afford to do it.  Out of a shoddy design, subpar components or an external supply, I know which one I'd choose.
 
@

still running all my tracks thru an outboard compressor, going in....