BRISTOL,
isn't that the same thing i just said?
 
 
i think we're all on the same page here.....?

I think I've got the message guys, thank you so much for the advice.
 
Re: getting the mix right in the first place - entirely agree.  However in my particular situation it seems less relevant given that issues I had were evident even in portions of the song which were just solo piano (i.e. nothing else mixed in), direct output from a digital piano.  
 
Possibly the recording levels were a bit soft, hence when the soundcard applied its sound processing (which included making it louder) artifacts were introduced.

batsbrew
BRISTOL,
isn't that the same thing i just said?
 
 
i think we're all on the same page here.....?

You know what? i think we said the same thing.

yapweiliang
I think I've got the message guys, thank you so much for the advice.
 
Re: getting the mix right in the first place - entirely agree.  However in my particular situation it seems less relevant given that issues I had were evident even in portions of the song which were just solo piano (i.e. nothing else mixed in), direct output from a digital piano.  
 
Possibly the recording levels were a bit soft, hence when the soundcard applied its sound processing (which included making it louder) artifacts were introduced.

 
The sound card should NOT be applying it's own sound processing. All it should be doing is to faithfully reproduce what is already there. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
Even a solo piano or anything else needs to be "mastered" .... eq, compression, etc to get it sounding it's best.
 
It all starts with a well recorded track.
 
Most of these skills are not learned overnight. It takes years of working and study, and mixing and recording to get it right. The more you apply yourself the faster you will progress. But I dare say, even the "big boys" are still learning things every day they set behind a mixing board and turn the knobs.
 
The idea is not so much to "master mastering" but to become consistently consistent in your mixing.

I think maybe I didn't explain myself adequately.
 
My mix sounded just fine when coming through my higher-end sound interface, in Sonar, with no fancy processing.
 
I bounced it to MP3, and played it back using random MP3 player on computer.  This plays back via the computer's built-in soundcard (which I have linked up to the same speakers).  It sounded s***.  I wondered why.  After a while I discovered it was because the computer's built-in soundcard was applying its own processing.  I turned that off.  Then it sounded just fine, almost identical to output from Sonar.
 
So my question was - how do I process my mix, such that if my listener (whoever he/she may be) listens through some random computer that applies this processing, it doesn't spoil the sound.  I do agree the soundcard should not mess around the sound, but in fact it did/does - the default setting was to try to 'improve' the sound and in this case it made it worse.  
 
I would expect that most of my listeners listen on their computers via built-in soundcard, and I do not know whether their computer may apply this 'dts ultra' or whatever you call it processing.  They might not even realise it is ON, or might not even know how to turn it OFF.  Who knows - it might be ON by default?  it might be OFF?
 
The reason I think that something can be done, is, this built-in-soundcard-processing doesn't seem to affect commercial music in a 'bad' way (or at least the ones I own), but it does affect my mixes (including just solo piano).
 
The answer as I understood, was to master it as best as you can.  So I will learn how to.
 
I think it is a relevant question because more and more playback devices are able to apply some sort of EQ or compression or automatic volume control, in a way that is out of our control.
 
Thanks,
Wei Liang
 
 
 
 
 

Yes an interesting problem there. It may be that commercial releases are limited to within 0.1dB of their lives and maybe that has something to do with it. Also good commercial releases will often have a well controlled bottom end too. Are you leaving too much bottom end in your mixes perhaps. Mastered tracks that are not so loud and not limited to death and actually have some dynamics may not play well with these enhancing circuits and processes. What also may be happening is these silly processes could be level sensitive and apply more boost and stuff and do more when the level drops down but with very loud masters they tend to leave them alone a bit more. How loud are your masters compared to commercial releases in general.
 
I still would not bother with these silly enhancing effects that go on. You have got no control over how people are listening to your mixes. All you can do is create a great mix and master it nicely and leave it at that.
 
Or you could do a great mix but master it two ways. One for internet release where the bottom end is controlled and tighter and limited to be pretty loud. A second more relaxed master with less compression and limiting and a wider frequency range. I sometimes create two masters myself depending on the distribution medium.

You are asking how YOU can stop a LISTENER from screwing up the sound.  Can't be done.
 
I now know and understand what you meant. Yes, on my MP3 player there are "presets" for the EQ..... named things like ROCK, CLASSICAL, NORMAL, JAZZ, POP..... and each one of them affects the way the music will sound. Some have less bass, some more bass..... etc....I don't doubt that other FX are applied in some cases too, such as reverb and widening, as I have seen that somewhere on one of the players I have had in the past.
 
If someone chooses to set up their player with Classical, reverb and widening, nothing you do in the studio can prevent what will happen in that player.
 
It's probably best to ignore that and simply work on a balanced, well produced mix, and let it go at that. What the end users do to it is out of your control.

You may as well ask how you can mix a song so that it sounds good on your system and someone who has punched holes in their cones of their speaker.  Ain't much you can do about it, since everyone punches different size holes in their woofer.
 
@

Okay :-)  Thank you again, everyone, for the advice.
 
Wei Liang
 
 
 
 

'Hope the Op doesn't mind my love of this excellent thread.  Well ... I love the suggestions propounded here on all levels.
 
I'll humbly guess most would agree: excellent studio tricks probably cannot replace 'inspired' hook(s), ... nor replace 'some' music theory, vocal creativity, pining love, 'choice retakes', *conviction*, experimentation, etc. (to name a few) ... depending on your music perhaps.  
 
Whats worse than an MP3?: An iphone playing an MP3 through its auxiliary output into a loud stereo! 
 
To my hypersensitive ears, Sooooo many pop songs (mine included) want studio perfection, ... and sound like jack-hammering blended with robotic flatulence ... Yet, entertaining (at times) on many 'non-studio' levels.
 
That said, my Hip-hop mixes get muddy at higher volumes (many stereos) as do most bass intensive pieces ... especially when the bass itself gets 're-amplified' via a sub-woofer.  
 
Ears don't always 'understand' your/my distortion issues.  The Songs Forum is awesome, but these artists are extremely DAW-centric ... hence overly enticed by your DAW questions.  The artists on this thread are 'the best' out there, IMHO.  (no flattery intended)
 
... And ears are tricky receptors to communicate songs to ... as EVERYONE here has implied.
... (all human vexations and vanities aside)
... Methinks we all have 'similar ears' with similar psycho-acoustic laws judging songs.
 
(Off topic:  I'm still curious how movie theater allows ultra-compressed hip-hop during the closing credits ... that drives everyone out of the theater.)  Thanks for letting me share!