• Techniques
  • I have time sig confusion again (p.3)
2013/11/22 10:42:07
sharke
bitflipper
"1/1 time"...I like that.
 
Funny how working within the constraints of a DAW's timeline trains you to think linearly. A group of musicians jamming don't ever think about what time signature they're in! Or often, even what key.




Or like me, a lone guitarist who has improvised without giving music theory or structure a single thought for years. Since working in a DAW I have found it quite the challenge to start thinking about music in these terms. Even now I'll come up with something on the keyboard and then puzzle for hours about what time signature it's in. 
2013/11/22 14:06:00
spacealf
Count to 12, rinse and repeat. In other words it is 12/8ths time signature or 12/4 time signature probably 12/4ths time signature.
But wiggle around when playing any instrument perhaps.

 
 
 
2013/11/22 16:10:18
Bristol_Jonesey
If I was programming this on a computer I'd set it up as 12/8
2013/11/22 16:23:38
spacealf
It's harder to get the beat at the beginning of the song till about half-way and later through the song. Then the 12 beats come out distinctly when it recycles in the song.
 
2013/11/25 15:48:25
rumleymusic
I firmly believe the difference between a good composer or writer is deliberate actions, not guesswork.  "Rules" are made to be broken by those who know the rules.  Otherwise it is just ignorance (to loosely quote Schoenberg).  Of course my own education and background makes me a little biased and stodgy in this regard.
 
If the writer's deliberate intention was to completely throw off the listener by changing the time signature, I'd say he succeeded.  If it was to create a smooth loop pattern without confusion, well, imho, he failed.  
 
How do you know the time sig isn't 6/4 with the first beat in the first measure measure starting on beat 3?   

 
 I know you're poking fun, but just in case someone takes it seriously:
 
It wouldn't make sense musically to write it that way.  The only reasons a piece of music typically starts on a pick up measure is to emphasize a dominant to tonic relationship or a similar melodic/rhythmic pickup.  It would make no sense in a electronic loop context.  
2013/11/25 17:55:11
Jeff Evans
Of course my own education and background makes me a little biased and stodgy in this regard.... It certainly does and it shows. There are many ways to compose. There is also very fine line between total improvisation and composition as well. That piece of music is very well organised and quite intentional. He has actually created a very smooth idea that features both a 3/4 time and 4/4 time juxtaposed at the same time and it works very well indeed. There was no guesswork involved in that.
 
I would create a session probably in 3/4 time. I think Bristol is partly right except the melody is really in 12/4 time. Or the melody is actually over 4 bars of 3/4 time. It is quite simple. Other parts like the bass riff etc are simply over 2 bars of 3/4 time.
 
As a drummer I would not be thinking of it all in either 3/4 or 6/4 time, wrong approach. I would be playing it in 4/4 as the composer intended BUT I would be aware of where the 3/4 time phrases are beginning and ending though. eg 3 bars of 4/4 time is where the melody starts over etc..
 
It happens in Jazz drumming. Sometimes when an ensemble gets into a real 3/4 thing I slip the drums into 4/4 Jazz time over the whole thing. It makes it all sound a little cooler and takes away a bit of the 3/4 feel. But you must still know where the tops of the choruses are though and where the various sections of the 3/4 time start and end so you can still phrase around that. Other times I actually play the ride and snare parts in 3 while keeping the hats in 4. That sounds nice but more subtle.
 
In this Lindstrom piece he has created quite a strong 4/4 time drum groove while the rest of it cruises in the odd time sig. Well done and it sounds good to me. Like it.
 
2013/11/25 18:25:53
Kev999
I completely disagree with those who keep mentioning 3/4 here.  The piece has a definite 4/4 feel, but with a pattern that repeats every 6 beats.  Think of it as 4/4 with extra 2 beats in the bar.
 
2013/11/25 18:57:50
Jeff Evans
I completely disagree with those who keep mentioning 3/4 here.... I don't agree with you there Kev. There are two sections in the music that shows this clearly. One in the middle where the 4/4 drum thing drops out completely. That is the clue. Listen there. There is nothing 4/4 with 2 extra beats about the music at that point. It is basically in 3 or 6. Also near the end you can hear quite clearly part of the music that has a definite 3/4 time to it.
 
It is just an odd time thing 3/4 or 6/4 with a 4/4 groove over the top. Simple as that. Quite a common thing as I said happens in jazz situations all the time.
2013/11/25 19:34:44
John T
Lindstrom is a very smart guy, though by his own admission he knows very little formal music theory. But with regards to the point about intentionality, I have no doubt this is exactly as he meant it to be. He just likely wouldn't have the musical vocab to talk time signatures about it. I think it's very clever and interesting. You could argue that someone with more formal theory would struggle to come up with something like this, but that doesn't mean he's just cluelessly bashed it out.
2013/11/25 19:36:57
John T
The Lindstrom and Christabelle LP 'Real Life Is No Cool' is an amazing piece of production. Recalls Quincy Jones's Michael Jackson stuff. Check it out.
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