2017/02/07 15:56:55
mumpcake
UbiquitousBubba
Top 40: More boring that Ambient and more irritating than an accordion/bagpipe/vuvuzela Power Trio.



You may be right.  However, I think the vuvuzela/wobble bass/808 power trio is just a bit more annoying.
2017/02/07 15:57:57
Mesh
mumpcake
UbiquitousBubba
Top 40: More boring that Ambient and more irritating than an accordion/bagpipe/vuvuzela Power Trio.



You may be right.  However, I think the vuvuzela/wobble bass/808 power trio is just a bit more annoying.


Now you're splitting hairs
2017/02/07 17:40:10
sharke
I have a friend who used to be an "Ambient DJ" back in the 90's. To this day I have no idea by what criteria he selected one record over another. 
2017/02/07 17:40:58
TheMaartian
UbiquitousBubba
I was going to comment on Ambient music and how it's the only genre intended to be so dull and pointless that your brain would rather pretend it doesn't exist than go on listening. I was going to do that. Then I thought of this.
 
Top 40: More boring that Ambient and more irritating than an accordion/bagpipe/vuvuzela Power Trio.
 
Sorry, Ambient music. You're not quite dull enough. Keep not trying, though. Oh, and congratulations on the Underachiever's trophy. 

Be careful what you ask for.

2017/02/07 17:47:21
sharke
I think it's this New Age whale music kind of ambient stuff that I don't understand, musically speaking. Seems to me anyone can just hold a chord down for 10 minutes and bring a few subtle elements in here and there. But I do like ambient music that has some musical depth to it and is actually nice, like this for instance: 

 

 
2017/02/07 18:18:48
soens
I think you're all missing the point of this genre (if it is indeed a genre). You're not supposed to listen TO it but be affected BY it.
 
Subliminal hypnotic mind control comes to mind. Probably riddled with imperceptable, deeply concealed slowely spoken repeated messages like "you're getting sleepy" "you're getting sleepy" "you're getting sleepy" "you're getting sleepy" "you're getting sleepy" "you're getting sleepy" "you're getting sleepy" "you're getting sleepy" "ignore the neighbor's noise" "you're getting sleepy" "you're getting sleepy" "you're getting sleepy" "you're getting sleepy" "think happy thoughts" "you're getting sleepy" "you're getting sleepy" "you're getting sleepy" "you're getting sleepy" "you're getting sleepy" "you're getting sleepy" "send me a million dollars while thinking happy thoughts" "you're getting sleepy" "you're getting sleepy" "you're getting sleepy" "you're gett....
 
Now that I have full control of your mind, stop whining about how boring this music is (if it is indeed music) and explain to me why I haven't received my million dollars yet.
2017/02/07 21:16:19
JohanSebatianGremlin
sharke
Just wondering how one goes about making music like this. Is there any method to it at all short of drawing out some 10 minute long notes in the piano roll? I keep trying to picture the person working on the track. Were they stopping and listening to it over and over to map out its progress, or do they literally just draw some MIDI notes, listen to it all the way through to check for anything obviously out of place, export it and call it a day? Seems like you could bang a few of these out a day, put them in a playlist on Spotify and rake in a few dollars from people like me playing them on repeat for 7 hours at a time. 

I've done some ambient stuff in my day. To try to answer what you're asking, I'll simply reframe your question a bit with a somewhat different hypothetical.  


So the speed metal stuff. I'm just wondering how one goes about making music like this. Do you just set all the distortion knobs to max, pick a key, and then play as many notes as you can as quickly as you can with no regard for melody or groove or feel what so ever? Seems like you could bang a few of these out a day, put them in a playlist on Spotify and rake in a few dollars from people like me playing them on repeat for 7 hours at a time. 
 
Ok I know that seems like I'm just knocking speed metal. But I'm not. I'm making a point. The answer in both cases is pretty much the same. In all cases actually, no matter what genre you're talking about it.
 
No matter what genre, if you don't much care for it and don't really listen to it all that much, it will sound more or less like a random string of notes with no rhyme or reason as to how anyone could have come up with such a thing nor any idea how they could remember it long enough to play it the same way twice in a row. This applies even if you happen to hear something in that genre that you kind of like assuming you've heard it only once.

To understand how it is that someone could create a style of music you don't normally listen to, you have to live in it for a while. Immerse yourself in it and spend lots of quality time really listening to it. Then and only then will you begin discover the real nuances that both define the genre and separate the high quality examples of the genre from the low quality examples. This applies whether we're talking about speed metal, reggae, bebop, skiffle or yes, even ambient. 

So to actually answer your question, yes there's a method to making it. No you don't just just draw some MIDI notes, listen to it all the way through to check for anything obviously out of place, export it and call it a day? At least they don't if they care about what they're doing and want it to be a quality example of the genre.
 
Ambient is about texture and the art of subtle development. Its supposed to be a kind of sonic wallpaper that serves as a background for other things. Its not supposed to demand your full attention the way most other types of music do. But at the same time, you don't want to just hold an envelope sweep pad for 16 bars and repeat it for 6 minutes with no development at all because even as background wallpaper, that much repetition with no development becomes distracting. 

In a way, its no different that lots of other genres in that its pretty easy to fake and do something that 'sounds like it' but much more difficult to do something that actually is a quality example of the art. 
2017/02/07 21:28:54
sharke
JohanSebatianGremlin
sharke
Just wondering how one goes about making music like this. Is there any method to it at all short of drawing out some 10 minute long notes in the piano roll? I keep trying to picture the person working on the track. Were they stopping and listening to it over and over to map out its progress, or do they literally just draw some MIDI notes, listen to it all the way through to check for anything obviously out of place, export it and call it a day? Seems like you could bang a few of these out a day, put them in a playlist on Spotify and rake in a few dollars from people like me playing them on repeat for 7 hours at a time. 

I've done some ambient stuff in my day. To try to answer what you're asking, I'll simply reframe your question a bit with a somewhat different hypothetical.  


So the speed metal stuff. I'm just wondering how one goes about making music like this. Do you just set all the distortion knobs to max, pick a key, and then play as many notes as you can as quickly as you can with no regard for melody or groove or feel what so ever? Seems like you could bang a few of these out a day, put them in a playlist on Spotify and rake in a few dollars from people like me playing them on repeat for 7 hours at a time. 
 
Ok I know that seems like I'm just knocking speed metal. But I'm not. I'm making a point. The answer in both cases is pretty much the same. In all cases actually, no matter what genre you're talking about it.
 
No matter what genre, if you don't much care for it and don't really listen to it all that much, it will sound more or less like a random string of notes with no rhyme or reason as to how anyone could have come up with such a thing nor any idea how they could remember it long enough to play it the same way twice in a row. This applies even if you happen to hear something in that genre that you kind of like assuming you've heard it only once.

To understand how it is that someone could create a style of music you don't normally listen to, you have to live in it for a while. Immerse yourself in it and spend lots of quality time really listening to it. Then and only then will you begin discover the real nuances that both define the genre and separate the high quality examples of the genre from the low quality examples. This applies whether we're talking about speed metal, reggae, bebop, skiffle or yes, even ambient. 

So to actually answer your question, yes there's a method to making it. No you don't just just draw some MIDI notes, listen to it all the way through to check for anything obviously out of place, export it and call it a day? At least they don't if they care about what they're doing and want it to be a quality example of the genre.
 
Ambient is about texture and the art of subtle development. Its supposed to be a kind of sonic wallpaper that serves as a background for other things. Its not supposed to demand your full attention the way most other types of music do. But at the same time, you don't want to just hold an envelope sweep pad for 16 bars and repeat it for 6 minutes with no development at all because even as background wallpaper, that much repetition with no development becomes distracting. 

In a way, its no different that lots of other genres in that its pretty easy to fake and do something that 'sounds like it' but much more difficult to do something that actually is a quality example of the art. 




I don't think your analogies are quite fair - I can listen to all kinds of music that I don't usually listen to, including speed metal, and I don't have the same thoughts - despite the fact that it's not normally the kind of music I work with, I can still hear its structure and recognize that there has been some degree of writing or planning involved in it. This is why when I hear the ambient wallpaper music that I slept to last night, it genuinely makes me wonder whether there's any planning or structure behind it because it really does sound to me like they've set upon an ethereal sounding chord (usually one which has a close cluster in the middle to portray a kind of mystical sounding dissonance), and held it for ten minutes, adding some subtle changes in texture here and there, and maybe an extra note poking its head up now and again. I've listened to a very wide range of music my whole life, and I am capable of hearing what it's "getting at" even if I don't find it musically satisfying. 
 
I'm not knocking it,  it did its job to help me sleep after all - I'm just genuinely interested in the process behind it. And I still think there's some degree of stretching out insanely long MIDI notes involved, sorry 
2017/02/07 22:58:45
Jeff Evans
Brian Eno is very important in this art form and it is an art form. Around 1983 'On land Ambient 4" is the go. Also listen to Apollo Moon Missions and The Pearl. Another fantastic ambient album and this one is rare is Eno's Textures. 
 
Ambient 4 here:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nl1_dFV5vk
 
It does not get much better than this. There were 23 live players doing this as well as multiple synth overdubs!
 
The real term ambient also means no rhythms whatsoever ever as well. Klaus Schultze is not an exponent of this also by the way. He is nothing like it. I do love his music also though. Jarre knows how to do it as well.
 
Johan is very right too by the way. You have to listen to it and really understand it. Also you are forgetting there is classy ambient music and some pretty rubbish ambient music as well. 
 
There is very much a technique to doing it. I have developed the skills myself and composed a lot of ambient tracks over the years. (I will upload a few shortly for you to check out) It can be quite complex and many tracks involved and as Johan points out it is all about texture and lots of little things developing and going on. It changes over time and can be quite complex. There are more serene ambients and dark ambients too. Many multi tracks can be involved etc.
 
I suggest if you want to get to sleep you just seek out the best ambient albums. It will take you years to even come close.
2017/02/07 23:04:16
ampfixer
I've noticed that the popularity of this music has risen in lock step with the global Opioid crisis.
 
Just sayin'
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