OK, so, I realise this is a well-worn topic of discussion, answered innumerable times and in every possible way. However, I have not been able to find a short, simple answer to the question: At what dB does your mixed, mastered, stereo-mixdown-ed track peak at? Is it -0.1dB, to get your track as loud as possible whilst avoiding clipping? This is what I believed, but I recently read in a well-known magazine that "the average volume of chart hits hovers at around -6dB". It is also implied that - most current chart hits being electronically produced dance music - they are as loud as can be. (Let it be known that I have no interest in making chart hits, however, it's usually a good point of reference as far as ubiquitous mastering techinques/current trends are concerned.) Thank you very much in advance for your replies!

-6dB seems a tad on the quiet side.

My own "mastered" material peaks at -0.3dB, though -0.1dB is quite common from some of the wavs I've seen on Soundcloud & other sites.

I think in this case the -6dB figure is referring to the rms value of the music. Remember there are two components to any signal. The rms value and the peak value. It would not be referring to the peak value being at -6 dB that is way quiet as Bristol says. Peak values are hitting -0.1 dB often. I find you can go down to -0.3 and before I convert to a lower res such as AAC or MP3 I drop the overall level down to about -1 dB peak.

-6dB rms is seriously loud in fact, I only usually go to about -7dB rms which is also pretty loud. Only a few limiters can get there without smashing the mix apart.

If I know I am aiming for a very loud master at the end of the day I work at K -14 or even K-12 levels and then I only have to go up another 5 dB from K-12 to get the final thing up to K-7dB rms. Not that hard to do but still a fairly hefty shift upwards in level. 

Thank you Jeff and Bristol, that clears things up hugely!!!

I set my brickwall to a more conservative -1.0db. If you're really going for audiophile quality, set it to -3.0db, which is not unusual for high-end jazz and classical recordings. Perceived volume is based on average RMS, not peaks. It's unlikely you'd hear a perceptible difference in volume if your file's highest peak was at -0.1db versus -1.0db. Try it yourself and see.

It's unlikely you'd hear a perceptible difference in volume if your file's highest peak was at -0.1db versus -1.0db. Try it yourself and see.  

That is what I thought too Dave until I was mastering an album a while ago and the client was pushing for as much volume as possible. I found that there was a obvious noticeable difference between setting the upper peak limit to -0.1 compared to -1 dB for sure. It was louder and you could hear it. I think it depends on the type of material. 

With Jazz and other styles that don't need as much limiting you can still have peaks going up high as much as -1dB or higher even but what they don't do in these situations is push the rms value so hard.  Instead of going for an average rms level of say -7dB a high end Jazz production may even stay around -14 or 12 dB rms instead which sounds better and can breath a bit better in terms of transients and dynamics. (thank god for some sanity here or normality!)

Steely Dan's 'Everything Must Go' CD is sitting around -12dB rms the whole time which is rather nice and yes it sounds great! And that is more pop too which is a little unusual. Some of Kurt Rosenwinkels CD's (modern Jazz guitarist and incredibly good at that too!) have been pushed a little and are a little loud but they don't sound that way though. Most decent Jazz recordings are mastered at a decent respectable level which is great. 

Yes, Jeff, you probably did hear a difference. But not because the peaks were 0.9db higher. Rather because you raised the overall level 0.9db in order to get the peaks up there.

Dave maybe not! In the PSP Xenon you can leave the input level raising amount alone but change the output limit only from say -0.1 dB to -1 dB. When you are doing this you are not increasing the amount of loudness the limiter is giving you but merely changing the output limiting level. You can still hear it when this happens.

But in a way what you are also saying is true because if you allow all the material to extend up another 0.9 dB then it must be said that the music is now containing energy that is extending up another 0.9 dB. This is what I meant by depending on the material and how hard you are pushing things too. 

If you were not pushing things that hard and there was not much extra energy in that extra 0.9 dB then you are right you would not hear any difference.

The international standard is 0.2 or this is what I was taught in Digital Audio Theory.  It use to be 0.3.

Peace Ben

Well Ben that is interesting. Personally I think even that is very high. There is still something to be said for staying well clear of a lot of converters that might still have trouble sounding good at -0.2 dB max level.  A good upper limit might be -1dB but then you are loosing some volume when you do this. How silly all this is when we can should be well clear of any of these levels.
(And we have got a whole whopping 96 dB of available range below it even at 16 Bit!)

I am thinking of enrolling in the Masters of Music technology at Newcastle Uni ! What do you think. Would you recommend it?