2013/10/04 06:22:18
davdud101
I finally found out about subtractive eqing... All this time I've been cutting the low, but boosting the highs and sweeping the top tenth! Ik, I'm late to the party!
Where can I find some tips on using subtractive eq to make my mixing work a bit more in my favor? And any tips and tricks here?
2013/10/04 08:09:22
Guitarhacker
Less is more.
 
I think everyone starts out using additive EQ, and at some point, they either hear someone speak about subtractive EQ or figure it out on their own..... and start using it.
 
If you read between the lines of the posts of quite a few of the people here, you will see that they do speak about using subtractive EQ quite often. Probably more from the POV that it's a "given" that others know it and therefore it goes unmentioned in the main discussion, but the clues are there in the conversation.
 
I have heard it in many places including here. I learned it...well I heard about it back in the "live band gigging" days.... it came as advice from the guy in the sound department at the music store when we were buying some rack gear.... keep the EQ flat to start with and try not to increase the frequency bands much above the center position. Pull down the offending frequencies rather than boosting the non-offending frequencies..... it's easier.
 
Of course, we told the sound man for our band, who, due to his lack of knowledge, proceeded to make the 1/3rd graphic look like a silhouette of a mountain range.  everyone has to learn.
 
 
As far as advice.... most good sound/mixing books will cover this issue..... the other is to set everything in your channels to FLAT... or default (which in Ozone and others is flat in the center) and don't take anything above the center..... play with the track soloed and only pull things down..... listen to it in the context of the mix..... experiment some more and you will learn.  Once you develope the ears to hear the offending frequencies, and begin to know what to listen for, it's actually OK to use additive EQ as well.... it's not a crime. At this point, I don't think about it as Additive vs Subtractive... I simply think about it as EQ. Whatever I think is needed to make the sound like I imagine it should sound.
2013/10/04 08:19:09
The Maillard Reaction
Boost away.
 
Cutting is fine too.
 
The only time you have to worry about boosting being a problem is if you are using one of those super duper analog modeling EQs that add noise when you boost.
 
The regular old digital EQs can boost with no worries.
 
If anyone mentions the word "flat" to you... you should immediately consider what they mean by "flat".
 
"Flat" as an aesthetic is a hold over from stereo and hi-fi enthusiasm where by you hope to reproduce exactly what the record producer hoped you would experience.
 
As soon as you put up a microphone and start recording your own stuff you'll start dealing with the reality that there is no "flat" in the production process. Your choice of microphone, your choice of location, your choice of mic positioning, your choice of instrument... all of that stuff interacts and creates a unique EQ curve from the very start and you will be manipulating the EQ through out the production process.
 
Cuts are very effective for clearing out the overall sound so that is a good reason to use them... it is easy to accumulate a massive amount of lower mids when you sum all the tracks into a mix... so cuts are a great way to trim down the excess. On the other hand, a boost on a upper mid and a overall lowering of the output level of any source track gets you in the same ball park.
 
With digital EQs and high resolution mix buses it hardly matters how you get the sound you want.
 
If you have one of those super duper analog modeled EQs you may even be hoping to hear the noise as you boost.
 
Most of the advice you'll read was designed by teachers who assumed their students were inept so they defined safety guidelines that allow for fixing and mix rescue later on. If you just do what you think sounds good and look forward you'll keep your project pointed in the right direction. When so few people had such limited time on gear it may have seemed useful to have arbitrary and arcane safe guidelines. Now that almost everyone has access to first hand experience it seems more useful to encourage people to gather more and more first hand experience. So, try focusing on cuts for a while as a learning experience but don't let that make you shy away from using a boost when you feel it's just the thing for your project.
 
It's all good.
 
best regards,
mike
 
 
 
 
 
2013/10/04 08:44:22
Jeff Evans
Here is an interesting SOS article on EQ. looks like a general good read:
 
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec08/articles/eq.htm
 
The thing as mentioned in the article too is that a narrow boost for example is a most unnatural sound. But a narrow cut or notch is almost inaudible. Same could be said for broad boosting a small amount. That will be very audible but a shallow broad cut is much less noticeable.
 
It could be said that cutting is somewhat more natural than boosting. Some EQ's may actually work and sound better in cut mode as well. Although I tend to agree with Mike in that these days they are much better.
 
When you cut anything you will tend to lose level as a result so when you are into cutting you have to be prepared to increase the gain. Boosting often results in increase in gain so the signal will have to be lowered in some cases.
 
What takes practice and skill is knowing when to cut rather than boost. There will always be a tendency to boost first but often it is only a simple cut in one area that can create the illusion that all the other areas are being boosted especially after the gain is adjusted upward to suit. It is faster and often sounds better as a result. If you feel you need to boost say three or four areas of the spectrum then reconsider and perhaps try cutting the area you think is right and apply gain instead.
 
One area that can fool people is when the bass is too excessive. (say in a mix) It is easy to think the mids and highs need to be boosted to match the bottom end but cut the low end instead and the mids and highs will just naturally get louder. Once again you will lose some level but easily put back in with some gain added. So now you have boosted two areas without any boosting at all, just a little cut instead.
 
Other articles of interest:
 
http://www.hometracked.com/2008/01/31/eq-cut-narrow-boost-wide/
 
http://therecordingrevolution.com/2011/12/12/subtractive-eq-will-make-your-mixes-better/
 
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar08/articles/qa0308_4.htm
 
http://kimlajoie.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/eq-cutting-vs-boosting/
 
 
2013/10/04 09:14:23
bitflipper
Far more significant than the boosting versus cutting question are the twin concepts of masking and complementary equalization.
 
When two sounds share the same "space", either occurring at the same time or having overlapping frequency content, the quieter of the two becomes more difficult to perceive. That's masking. 
 
When an instrument becomes "lost in the mix" you don't necessarily just turn it up, you find out what's masking it and reduce the conflicting frequencies in whatever track is doing the masking. IOW, when two things are fighting for the attention of your ear, turning one of them down will achieve the same result as turning the other one up.
2013/10/04 09:44:20
Jeff Evans
All aspects of EQ are important. What I am talking about is more about a single sound and boosting vs cutting can make a big difference there. It is well worth practicing. It impacts on the quality of tracks, buses and the stereo mix.
 
What Dave is taking about is also important in what happens when two or three parts are all arriving at the same time on a buss and they all share a very similar EQ, masking comes into play.
 
What could be even more important than EQ however is shutting up parts in the right spots so you can clearly hear others behind. That is the ultimate way to make any part clearer. The ear loves things coming in and going out.
2013/10/04 10:31:01
batsbrew
i use narrow cuts all the time.
 
i hear them, then i use Waves PAZ to fine tune it.
http://www.waves.com/plugins/paz-analyzer
 
i never do boosts unless they are wide, and rarely more than 2db anywhere.
 
if your tracks are boomy, fix it at the source.
if your tracks are trebly, fix it at the source, and move the mics
if your room sounds crappy, go to a better room, and only close mic
if you use samples, carve freely with great prejudice!!
 
but always consider all tracks together, never solo to eq a track.
that is chasing your tail.
 
2013/10/04 13:56:42
Guitarhacker
I guess the entire point I was trying to make is use as little EQ as is possible to get the tone and quality you need. Whether it's boosted or cut, use it sparingly.
 
If you find you are having to use drastic levels of EQ in either direction, you should go back to how that sound was recorded in the first place and start to fix it at the source.
2013/10/04 14:10:09
dubdisciple
There was a cakewalk blog post about a year ago in regards to subtractive eq if you wanted to see something from a sonar tools perspective. I will look for it.
2013/10/04 20:44:31
spacealf
Subtractive is just a term as additive. You either add color or subtract it. Anyway too much of anything is too much. Moderation in EQ also.
 
Zero points are important. Slope is important. What is not important is perhaps your hearing.
At the end it was all subjective as well as objective in the sounds you hear.
You only hear as you hear, not as anyone else hears.
 
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