Hi Danni, 
With all due respect, your interest in playback correction systems just started making a lot more sense.  
 
Mixing down there makes it difficult to hear a balance of the frequencies.  The 77dBSPL to 85dBSPL range, described all the way back in the early 1970s, is where the phenomena described by Fletcher Munson curves begins to balance out and you get adequate bass response without turning up the low end EQ. If you get much louder the high end gets too loud and you'll probably mix that too low.
 
That's the range where most folks perceive a balanced frequency response.
 
That's why the theater business identified that range as the target range and suggested that consistency in that range would provide a quality experience to people where ever they are. The reason theater presentation has been a good guide is that the audience doesn't get to turn volume knobs or EQ... so you have to do your best to provide something enjoyable. (I know, I know... a lot of theaters play back too loud and some just sound suck ass).  
 
It has been recognized for so long that speaker designers target that range as well and make sure the cross overs or bi amp designs seem balanced in there. If they design a speaker to sound full range without supplementary EQ at 70dBSPL it will sound like boomy dog doo at 85dBSPL.
 
If you mix down at 70dBSPL, I think it is fair to say that you need EQ correction to craft a mix that translates. 
 
  
 
You can see that 90 has nice flat low end... but that's too loud for just about everyone to work at for very long without losing their ability to sort out the details. 90dBSPL may be great for the party but tedious for mixing.  
 
all the best,
mike   
 
 
 
edited

Interesting, Mike.
 
When I mix, even tho I don't measure the dBs, I know I'm set w/in a few dBs for most of my work.  It is where the speakers/room sound right.  Loud but unpushed.  And like I said, I will push for a listen, back if off on the next go around, or go fix a cup of coffee or check my email in another room (doors open, of course).  It is amazing what you hear or don't hear when you change the volume.  If you hear everything, tho, you figure you've got a good mix, as Danny says about the fade out.
 
However, here at home I seldom work for long periods - over a couple of hours.  And at the pro studios I use, it is often the small monitors used for most of the time.  Once again, mixes get checked on the main.  But listening to loud music for extended times dulls the hearing.
 
@

Hi Mike,
 
You're probably right in every thing you're saying as I know I've been mixing too low for a long time. However, it seems to work as weird as it may sound. Not just for the "0 ear fatigue" but (I swear I'm not padding this here) I just about get 0 call-backs for mistakes or revisions. I have a huge client base, some of which are so anal, some guys may not entertain the thought of such clients. I'm talking overly anal to the point of annoying. BUT....that was in the beginning when they first started working with me. They still remain anal, but each one of course needs different treatment. They don't even "check me" now because I'm locked in. And even in their anal days, it wasn't that they gave me a hard time, they were just super precise with things that only they would have heard, ya know?
 
So my point in sharing that is....I may have room issues in all my rooms....I have had room issues in some of the cold call rooms I've been asked to work in at other studio's...some of the things I say may not make sense...but honest they work for me with that little hypester named ARC. LOL! It's just something you'd have to experience either here or at my other place down the shore.
 
I have had a few guys from the Sonar forum stop around as well as guys from other forums I hang at. I always tell them to bring their mixes as well as reference mixes here so they can hear for themselves. They always seem to love how things sound here and....here's the kicker....they know they have problems with their own mixes yet can never seem to fix them in their bedroom studios. But when they are here, they hear all the stuff that's wrong and if they bring a Sonar bundle with them or another DAW bundle, they fix it on the spot and tell me when they get back home "dude, it sounds right now!"
 
Honest, if I were a fluke or not doing a great business here in my studio's seeing some really nice results, I'd never talk about the stuff I talk about. I'm sure there are 100 things wrong with everything I do in every room I do them in. But there has to be 200+ things that are right or I'd be working at Booger King. LOL! :)
 
-Danny

I would also like to add that although I have mentioned 85 dB as a monitoring volume in reality there is obviously a variation or a range of volumes. Yesterday I was spending a fair bit of time mixing and with both small and large speakers and I was aware of the what the SPL meter was doing. Mainly because of this thread.
 
85 dB would be the upper limit with 86 dB being only a short burst and the lower level is more like 80 dB for me. The average level I like working at is what Mike has suggested and that seems to be 83 dB for me too. But drifting down to 80 and up to 86 now and then.
 
I tried listening to Dave's level of 77 dB and found it a bit hard. I have probably lost a little sensitivity overall. Danny I feel is in the very low end of this range too and I would be a little uncomfortable there for too long I think personally. I would not be able to mix as well there but knowing Danny he probably can and well too because he has learned what a well balanced mix sounds like at those levels. (I do love the excitement though of a good old 105 dB blast, man it does sound good I don't care what anyone says What I do find after that is how loud the reverbs are and that blast makes me turn them down a little)
 
Here is what I did find interesting. I listened to 77 dB for quite a while and then jacked it up to 80 dB and I was amazed at how much louder that is. And then after that up to 83 dB and it was quite a jump too. But for me, a jump into some nice territory volume wise.
 

I have changed my view about working below 83 dB now. Yesterday I was up early and decided to start doing some mixing work but because of the rather early time I decided to work at a max level of only 75 dB SPL and I must say I liked it too. I think being fresh in the morning after a good rest and not hearing anything louder than that first enabled it to work very well and it sounded good.
 
I certainly find working at 75 dB hard after any lengthy work at 85 dB or higher. Then that is a tough one. Going back is not easy once you start louder. But I still feel that 75 dB you still have to be careful. I was not making important mix decisions but doing much more editing work instead. But it is a lovely volume for sure. The low and high end extremes are a little quiet and if you always worked there you would have to be careful about how much bottom end you were putting into your mix etc.. But like anything you can learn what the right amount of bass and high end sounds like at 75 dB.
 
Interesting after doing about two hours at 75 dB how loud 85 dB sounded then after people went to work. It sounded way louder, after all 10 dB is a fairly sizeable increase in anyone's language.
 
All interesting stuff. I am really grateful for having a permanent SPL meter set up and operating. It is very very good and it keeps your monitoring levels much more consistent. Your mixes will just get better if you do this and not much else.

I do agree that cranking it loud helps you identify excessive reverb. :)

I tried calibrating my system to 83/85 after reading Jeff's notes a couple of years ago and found it was not only too loud for me, but also the people downstairs!
 
78dB is about right for all concerned, and as soon as I get my studio back, I'll be recalibrating all over again.

With regard to the small speaker, I am thinking about getting an Avatone mix cube.  What does everyone think of that?
 
Thanks,
 
Tom

tvolhein
With regard to the small speaker, I am thinking about getting an Avatone mix cube.  What does everyone think of that?
 
Thanks,
 
Tom

I've never used one myself Tom...but have heard nothing but great things about them from people on forums as well as guys in real life. These types of things are subjective though....so see if you can try one somewhere or at least have the option to return. I personally have great results turning off everything but one monitor and enabling mono interleave in Sonar when I want to check mixes that way. I can do it with every set of monitors I have. It may not quite be the Avantone, but it's worked beautifully for me for years doing things that way. :)
 
-Danny

Thanks Danny