2013/09/21 22:48:31
bitflipper
Perhaps a better puzzler would be: how many -12dB white noise tracks would it take before your master bus goes into the red?
 
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-spl30.htm
2013/09/22 08:05:21
The Maillard Reaction
rumleymusic
The pan law shouldn't make a difference in this case, assuming both mono tracks are panned center and calculated at -12db.  If the math is done correctly, two identical audio tracks combined will increase the dB level by 6.  Usually random white noise added to other random white noise will increase the dB level by 3.  So....-9dB
 
By far the best thing on the Sengpiel page IMO is the visualization of stereo microphone techniques.  One can see how terrible XY is for a stereo mic pattern, and also plan for the optimal pattern for various recording situations.




 
Yes, how ever I didn't assume they were mono sources and a quick look at this link:
 
http://www.harmoniccycle.com/hc/images/SONAR/Sonar-pan-laws.pdf
 
will show that SONAR didn't always obey the pan law you had chosen. I recall that SONAR got updated in that regard but I have yet to learn if anyone went to the trouble of checking to see what was actually improved.
 
 
I appreciate the explanation about the difference between white noise and identical sources. You made it easy to understand with that context! Thanks.
 
all the best,
mike
2013/09/22 14:41:49
dmbaer
rumleymusic
The pan law shouldn't make a difference in this case, assuming both mono tracks are panned center and calculated at -12db.  If the math is done correctly, two identical audio tracks combined will increase the dB level by 6.  Usually random white noise added to other random white noise will increase the dB level by 3.  So....-9dB




Very interesting.  I'd never given any thought to the effect of randomness/coherence on summing with respect to dB increase.  I guess the takeaway is that, in the absence of a coherence-ometer (what, one doesn't come with SONAR?), one should make no assumptions about where to put the fader when sending multiple channels to the same bus.
2013/09/22 17:42:31
rumleymusic
Perhaps a better puzzler would be: how many -12dB white noise tracks would it take before your master bus goes into the red?

 
Should be pretty easy to calculate without using the calculator, each doubling would increase the dB level by 3 so.........-12+3+3+3+3=0 or 1x2x2x2x2=16 (-12db peak) tracks. That should put you in the red. 
 
How about another puzzler.  If you had 64 mono tracks of white noise at -12db and needed to combine them into one buss.  How much would you need to decrease the volume on the buss to avoid clipping the output?  (Assuming of course the 64bit engine would not clip internally, which it shouldn't)
2013/09/22 18:12:38
bitflipper
64 tracks of white noise...wait, I've heard that song! It was on the Death Magnetic album, right? 
 
 
2013/09/22 18:15:34
Jeff Evans
A much simpler and better option is to simply install a VU meter on the buss and when the level reaches the reference level for that buss, the VU will show 0dB Vu and that means you have to make adjustments if you are intending to put more signal into that buss or simply stop there. But it is fun I guess to ponder the mathematics of it all.
2013/09/22 20:59:43
Rimshot
I admit, I failed the test but I liked it anyway.  Good to learn something guys.
 
Rimshot
 
2013/09/22 21:36:49
rumleymusic
64 tracks of white noise...wait, I've heard that song! It was on the Death Magnetic album, right?

 
Except on that album all the tracks were normalized before mixing and 24dB of peak limiting was applied. 
2013/09/23 14:35:20
dmbaer
bitflipper
64 tracks of white noise...wait, I've heard that song! It was on the Death Magnetic album, right? 
 
 




No, it's from a Wilco album (the one with the white egg on the cover) ... seriously.  There's a track that's about fifteen minutes long, and after the first 3 minutes or so, we get static.  Never has a skip-to-next remote button ever been more useful.
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