• Hardware
  • Best 12 ch Analog or Analog/USB Mixer??? (p.2)
2016/04/07 17:18:02
Pragi
I hate  to edit gear like X - air via smartphone, I- pad and cons.
Preamp wise I  prefer the Allen and Heath Zed boards over the yamaha´s , presonus,mackie´s 
aso in the price range under 500 bucks.
 
2016/04/07 19:39:23
Cactus Music
I've spent a fair bit of time shopping for mixers. Both small and large, I have 3 different needs. Solo act, Live band and the studio.   I make  lists of features and specs and compare all the leading brands. I would never waist my time with any company that is an unknown in Pro Audio. Alto makes cool powered speakers (I own them), but the mixers are going to be the bottom of the line.
I also will visit a music store and do some hands on armed with a mike and a set of headphones to try the effects out. This is why I chose the Yamaha. You can adjust the effect parameters so they are 1/2 arse usable.
 
First the band I joined last year was in dire need of an upgrade as the 15 year old Mackie 12 channel had many issues going on. I ended up with a Yamaha MG16 XU and after living with it for 8 months I am still very happy with my choice. It was just the best bang for the buck overall and a huge plus was the editable effects and the compressors on most channels.  I did not want a digital mixer simply because the rest of the band would be helpless if I was not there. We use in ears so the patching and sends had to be just so. Those compressors are very important if your in ears don't have protection...They are not that useful in a studio being set and forget, but they do even things out in a live mix.
 
For my solo act I have both a small Yamaha MG82cx and a Mackie Mix 8. You can read about that here on my web page 
http://www.cactusmusic.ca/johns_rig.htm
Those were bough based on small footprint needs. It was cheaper to add the Mix 8 to my kit than to suffer a larger mixer when I needed more channels. This is an option you might want to consider. Use a dead simple sub mixer to handle synths and drum machines and a table top to serve as the patch bay and monitors.
 
 
I also have an old Yamaha 01V that is now gathering dust as I find between having the 2 small mixers in the studio I have all I need to keep a few instruments and my old synth rack plugged in.
I'm a huge believer in using real mixers in the studio, like you I need fast access to faders and buttons.
 
The Mix 8 is used as a sub mixer for inputting via left main out to #4 of my interface.
The interfaces #3 input has the Joe Meek Pre amp for vocals patched in.
My Bass is Patched in to the interfaces front input # 2 from a Small Bass amp DI out (so the amp is the monitor).
Input #1 on the interface is a spare and comes in handy for many things.
The Yamaha MG82 is for monitoring only, it has the 3/4 output from my interface, a second send from the Joe Meek pre amp as well as the feed from the Mix 8. I use it for my headphone mixing this way.  Anyhow lots of options when you have a few mixers and a multi channel interface. Bottom line is, I rarely have to re patch things, my inputs are uncluttered and optimized, I have 100% control over my headphone mix.
2016/04/08 00:38:54
tlw
I've a small lightweight Yamaha mixer I use for small gigs of the kind where you set up a mix on stage and basically leave it alone. No engineer because gig fees won't pay for one. There's also often minimal setup time so speed is essential.

The Yamaha is fine for that kind of use, and I've heard them used for bigger systems as well and they're OK. The "one knob compression" on the mic channels is decent enough for rapid setup live work but obviously nothing like as flexible as a fully featured compressor. It works like an MXR Dynacomp as far as I can tell, just one control that's basically threshold and a fixed high ratio, gain compensation being via the channel fader.

As a recording desk, personally I wouldn't use it for that if an alternative were available. The pres don't sound as good to me as my old Mackie VLZ series console. And neither of the mixers can match the pres in my UFX which are invisible for all intents and purposes. They just add gain and very little noise. RME's Totalmix lets me configure it as a full 12-input desk plus up to another 16 inputs via ADAT plus whatever sends the DAW needs to use. The UFX, additional ADAT units and an ipad or laptop runing Totalmix actually make a pretty comprehensive digital mixer with eq, dynamics and reverb with far quicker access to the channel controls than most digital consoles give.

For DAW purposes I go for as many inputs to the interface as I need then monitor everything via the DAW. It's simple and allows me to run delays, compression, modulation fx, whatever on an instrument and hear what they're doing. I find it a much more flexible and convenient setup than using a hardware mixer.
2016/04/08 03:35:06
Snehankur
YAMAHA MG16XU.
It is rack-mountable with the clamps come with this model.
Apart from built in effects there are other signal routing possibilities which made me interested buying this product.
2016/04/08 04:51:15
soens
Thanks for sharing all the tips everyone. I just run a simple little home studio and like to keep it that way. There's a few good choices out there.
2016/04/08 19:13:31
Cactus Music
I thought I'd add a few notes that may be of interest to others shopping for a mixer. Just a few observations along the way. You mentioned USB.
 
The USB audio interface option that you'll often see with mixers is to be taken with caution.
Many brands don't offer proper drivers so these mixers will work fine for recording a stereo board mix into Audacity but may not work well or at all with Sonar. So worth noting is that Yamaha's come with Steinberg audio drivers. In other words, very decent drivers.
I was even able to double up with my Tascam us1641 in WDM mode.
I was able to have Sonar recording multi track from the Tascam, and switch to music playback on breaks from Media player via the Yamaha's USB without any issues.  So another plus bonus for Yamaha over the rest, good drivers.
 
The built in effects are also optional in most mixers. Once again approach with caution. I found that most brands have static pre-sets with no way to fine tune. Some Mackie and Yamaha boards have a parameter control which will gives you the advantage of say, changing the delay or reverb time.  This makes a huge difference to the usefulness of the effects in a live situation.
 
Also beware of the false advertising of channel count. It is sort of annoying that they will call a mixer 8 channels when it only has 6 faders.  Count the channel strips!! And some even expect you to use a stereo channel as a effects return.
Another annoyance is they will sport a "monitor" or "Control room" control which is post main output clone. It's disappointing to have your floor monitors level die when you turn down the mains.
 
And on the subject of new fangled gizmo digital mixers, What happens to all these iPad dependent mixers when your iPad dies 5 years from now and they become hard to find as time and technology moves onward? And some don't charge your device when docked? I find my iPad or phone batteries die pretty fast if I ask it to do to much and the screen is on. The life expectancy of an iPad is about 2 years ,, so your $299 digital mixer needs a $500 iPad..I think I'll stick to digital mixers that are 100% stand alone. If they have the iPad option that is then cool, but not cool if dependent.
 
 
 
2016/04/09 05:52:59
soens
 
I touched on those issues a little bit.
 
Channel count
I ignore the name/channel count and refer to what's actually there. It's nothing more than sales hype intended to bloat the price beyond what it should be. Why would the same maker sell a "12 channel" and a "14 channel" with exactly the same input layout? Because they're aiming them at 2 different customers?!
 
To me a true 12 channel mixer has 12 actual mic/line inputs and channel strips. How many people actually use SPDIF or optical anyway?!
 
USB
Years ago I tried an Alesis Multimix and sent it back because the drivers would not work on my system.
Most cheapy mixers are going to be 16/44.1. Yamaha comes in @24/192. I had my eye on the Allen Heath ZED60 but it's only 16/48 which is not what I want for quality recording/mixing. And I like the idea of multitraking right off the mixer.
 
Digital
I like where the Presonus Studio Live is going but it's still too menu driven for my simple mind.
 
Ethernet
This seems like a great idea over USB, firewire, etc. Almost every desktop and laptop has it. Why hasn't it been more widely implemented? There's an interesting thread on Gearslutz.com about it.
 
2016/04/09 11:58:43
JonD
tlw

The Yamaha.....
As a recording desk, personally I wouldn't use it for that if an alternative were available. The pres don't sound as good to me as my old Mackie VLZ series console. And neither of the mixers can match the pres in my UFX which are invisible for all intents and purposes....



Interesting.  My feeling is the exact opposite.  I think the D-Pres in my Steinberg (Yamaha) interfaces are an improvement over the Mackie VLZ stuff, and even the pres on my RME FF400. 
 
I would compare the D-Pres to the newer Mackie Onyx pres - with the latter being slightly more round/warm.
2016/04/09 15:48:51
Cactus Music
Pre amp quailty of signal is subjective. Often it's just some are louder so therefore come across as being "better" 
I have both Mackie and Yamaha gear now and from in the past and have never "heard" any differance. I even had a little Behringer mixer that sounded just fine but blew up after a short lifespan. My son owns an Allen and Heath which I also found of good quality. 
I find my little Mackie Mix 8 very worthy of feeding my interface. And my Yamaha 01v was my main front end for the last 18 years or so. It still works fine but is too big for my desk. I'm going to rebuild my workstation and rack mount it. 
 
I actually do not like the Focusrite interface pre amps much so they are my last ones used. It's not a matter of sound quality for me, but how forgiving a pre amp is. That's why I bought the Joe Meek 3 Q. as I was having way to many issues with getting a good level from the Scarlett. The focusrite pre amps are way to delicate so I end up with them turned down below what I'm used to recording at.  Can't expain why all I know is my levels are much better / hotter when I use most any other pre amp. Even my Tascam us1641 which has these el cheepo flimzy looking controls is tougher and needs little attention while recording live. 
 
I know there's plenty of gear snobs who poo poo Yamaha but it's a solid brand that has done me very well so I remain a loyal customer. Mackie is also still in my good books. My PA's have always been Yamaha and Mackie driven. Some Yorkville too. I just bought some Alto Speakers after reading a lot of positive reviews. So far so good. I would have prefered the Yamaha's but these where 1/3 the price so I'll see. I have a year to try them out risk free. 
 
2016/04/10 00:07:56
soens
It just seems odd to me that Yamaha can put 24/192 USB in their mixers which are probably used more live than studio, while Allen Heath only puts 16/48 USB in their gear.
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