2012/09/12 21:12:00
jm24
One of the stupidest comments I have read, and repeatedly read, is the recommendation that a novice should purchase the speakers/monitors that sound good to them, in a store environment that contains lots of other speakers, and drums,....

Way stupid. Since they know nothing they should NOT depend upon their uneducated ears. They need guidance.

Knowing how to USE a computer is not related to knowing how to configure, modify, update a computer. Many users think they know cuz they can figger how to change the desktop picture.

Most musicians will never have a clue about a computer's workings. And should not be expected to.

The car analogy is apropos. I know enough to understand what my car guys tell me about the bits and pieces to ask reasonable questions. Most people do not.

And I will not do the actual work.

One of the most common problems I am currently responding to of late is the idiocy of Java, Adobe,.. installing virus scanners by default. And since most users DO NOT KNOW HOW TO READ, they install these non-essential applications.

So they call me complaining that their computers are slow, and hang,... because 3 AV programs are running. And the browsers have 13 search bars,....

I clean the machine. I am patient. I explain. I teach. Very few learn. Cuz they are most interested in doing business, not learning about computer maintenance. As they should be.

The say Picasso was a major ****. Would you refuse a gift of his work?

If the audio-computer builders hired "beards" to address the public you would have no idea about their behavior. But because you know they do not "suffer fools lightly" means you will not ever purchase one of their products? You gonna make sure you always will know where they work, and what they do?

I absolutely know that the majority of applicances in your house are made by organiztions that employ lots of ****s. I figger ya got a micro, toaster,...

I am surmising you are young. You will learn to be less judgemental. More tolerant.

Or else not.

j

j







2012/09/13 23:37:19
mandrake
>>>>>One of the stupidest comments I have read, and repeatedly read, is the recommendation that a novice should purchase the speakers/monitors that sound good to them, in a store environment that contains lots of other speakers, and drums,....
Way stupid. Since they know nothing they should NOT depend upon their uneducated ears. They need guidance. <<<<<<
 
 
I've never read that anywhere.  I always read about taking them to the listening environment and playing reference cd's you are very familiar.
But no one is talking about monitors.  Is the connection you are making that people, in your opinion,  are stupid?
 
 
>>>>Knowing how to USE a computer is not related to knowing how to configure, modify, update a computer. <<<<<<
 
Configure?  what... turn off a few services,  delete (and don't instal) certain programs, disable a few thing?  doesn't require much skill to do that.  Modify? modify what? add a new hard drive or ram?  Add a sound card or whatever? piece of cake.  Update?  easiest of all.  Really its not that hard at all.  Inconvenient maybe. And the need to do so is less and less as computer power grows.   Trying to scare people into thinking it is so difficult that only an expert can do it is wrong, in my view.  I'd like to  remove the curtain and empower people.  Not make a sale for my buddies or people I like.  
 
I mean unless im a genius (a strong possibility if my mother is to be believed lol),  this stuff is butt simple.  A learning curb yes.  But like I said, less than the one for learning Sonar or playing an instrument or music theory....or mixing..
 
 
>>>>>Many users think they know cuz they can figger how to change the desktop picture. <<<<
 
I really have not seen that and that is a very condescending view.
 
>>>>Most musicians will never have a clue about a computer's workings. And should not be expected to. <<<
 
 
Again is because you think they are too stupid?  What are these mysterious "inner workings"?  Its kind of a set it and forget it unless you'd rather spend your time with testing and "optimizing".  A fun hobby but I'd rather make music with my computer.  The day is here finally! Computers are now way powerful enough to accomplish just about any vision.
 
>>>The car analogy is apropos. I know enough to understand what my car guys tell me about the bits and pieces to ask reasonable questions. Most people do not. <<<
Again (I type that a lot!) , I disagree that cars and computers analogies are "apropos".  See above as to why.  No need to repeat.
>>>>>One of the most common problems I am currently responding to of late is the idiocy of Java, Adobe,.. installing virus scanners by default. And since most users DO NOT KNOW HOW TO READ, they install these non-essential applications.
So they call me complaining that their computers are slow, and hang,... because 3 AV programs are running. And the browsers have 13 search bars,....
I clean the machine. I am patient. I explain. I teach. Very few learn. Cuz they are most interested in doing business, not learning about computer maintenance. As they should be. <<<<
 
 
This sounds like some rant born out of working in a support capacity.  And it sounds like a lot of exaggerating.  Of course that's what you deal with all day being in support.  So that,  IMHO,  clouds your judgment.  You don't get calls from people that are just fine and dandy. 
Plus it sounds like you really think people are stupid.
 
>>>The say Picasso was a major ****. Would you refuse a gift of his work? <<<
 
 
This one really made me laugh.  Picasso??  You think putting together a computer from the same exact parts anyone else can buy is like a world renown, legendary genius?  Boy I've heard of fan boys but you win the prize.  A Picasso is worth millions.  A 10 y/o computer (that prob cost $3-5 K when sold) is worth $100 now, at best.  And no, I would not refuse a Picasso.  lol.
 
>>>>If the audio-computer builders hired "beards" to address the public you would have no idea about their behavior. But because you know they do not "suffer fools lightly" means you will not ever purchase one of their products? You gonna make sure you always will know where they work, and what they do? <<<
 
 
See, there is that condescending thing. Whats wrong with responding in a professional manner?  That's the foolish part cause its a loss of $ and makes enemies when a simple little bit of professionalism would calm the waters. And fools? I've seen some very knowledgeable and well written counters to your Picasso.
 
 
>>>>I absolutely know that the majority of applicances in your house are made by organiztions that employ lots of ****s. I figger ya got a micro, toaster,..<<<<
So lets all just rollover and take it?   Or, a different approach would be to support people and things we feel are better for the world or just better for ourselves.  I don't want to support someone like your Picasso.  See my earlier posts for why.  Just my opinion though.  I realize you have a different one. 
 
>>>>I am surmising you are young. You will learn to be less judgemental. More tolerant.
Or else not.
j
j <<<<
 
Ahh the old tactic of a personal attack.  To me, when someone resorts to this,  they are on the losing end of the argument.  It's a desperation tactic.
Anyway...
Less judgmental and more tolerant?  Of a rude, condescending, and hostile computer maker?  Too many options out there to reward that.
 
 
But his has gone farther than what I am interested in spending my time doing. 
 
 My point is that the advice of the expert is often good and worth considering.  But it's not always the best or even definitive advice in all situations.  Thats all the point I was really trying to make. 
2012/09/13 23:57:04
mandrake
btw..I really want to point out that I'm not attacking anyone. I'm sure ADK and others make excellent products.  I was just pointing that there are other points of view. 
2012/09/14 08:45:20
jcschild
well i said i was done with this thread but evidently not.

mandrake,
i am a pretty busy guy, and post in several forums, due to this my posts are short, blunt and to the point. i dont have time to sugar coat it, or be polically correct. (not that i care anyway about politically correct)
i am not here for a popularity party what you see is what you get.
and i dont have to explain myself. funny about ever 6 months someone like you pops up..

1) i dont have to post on forums to help people and i do a lot of helping. even you have said as much.

2nd there is a huge amount of false and or bad info given on forums i am constantly having to deal with mis-information.
this thead is a good example.
i dont get ornery until i have to repeat myself 3 times or get attacked. (niether ever happens.. right)

you can take my advice or leave it, up to you. how i deliver it should be mostly irreleveant, at least to a point.

yet here you are doing what i am accused of? thats hillarious dude..
and if you think for a minute i am losing money due to my posts guess again.

we always ask to the client "how did you find us" we get 3 answers (we dont advertise at all period)
1) a friend refered me
2) internet search
3) forum postings/forum referrals

3 is the most common with 1 behind it.. so much for that thought... oh and to be clear thats not why i post never has been.. just a side effect that well i happen to like.  just incase you were thinking of going there..

frankly i wouldnt want you as a client you are way to smart for me.. its eveident you dont need my services, as after all building pro audio/vidio computers are so easy and there is never any compatibility issues ...  (amazing i stil have a job must be the snake oil i sell)

funny this usually comes from a guy doing 10-15 tracks and has no need of low latency and is not a pro user.
generally thinks his system is finely tuned (oh wait no need for that either)
and his 1600 ram is probably running @ 1066 and dont even know it..

to all those who are so smart i say come here and work for a few months.. and get to see first hand how simple it really is
how there is never any compatibility issues, (obviously never build a socket 2011)
and benchmark the performace gains from our un-needed useless tweaks and bios settings..

you know why i get to be so cocky?  i have seen every possible issue/scenario out there, every problem that can happen every compatibility potential as well as how NOT to do something. and resolved them all. been doing this longer than anyone (in biz non stop)
so i also have a system/setup longeivity idea as well. (only Roseberry has been around technicaly longer but took a few hiatus')

lastly i dont claim to be that smart but i am smart enough to surround myself with employees who are.

when you debate with me you are debating with 12 people, most of who have been in this industry a very long time..

carry on the company bashing now..
 
just realized this is like the 3rd or 4th time you have tried this nonsense with me..  the others on Gearslutz..
2012/09/14 13:02:30
mandrake
>>>>mandrake,
i am a pretty busy guy, and post in several forums, due to this my posts are short, blunt and to the point. i dont have time to sugar coat it, or be polically correct. (not that i care anyway about politically correct)
i am not here for a popularity party what you see is what you get.
and i dont have to explain myself. funny about ever 6 months someone like you pops up.. <<<<

 
 

yet here you are explaining yourself and wasting time from being bz. lol. I find that ironic. Like I said above (sigh), a little professionalism would save you time (and if time is $ then you do lose that as well by being rude and condescending). Ive said over and over im not trying to attack anyone or fight with anyone. See above so I don’t have to repeat everything.



>>>you can take my advice or leave it, up to you. how i deliver it should be mostly irreleveant, at least to a point. <<<<

 
 

I disagree that it’s irrelevant. But I don't feel like typing the same thing again.  See above.



>>>yet here you are doing what i am accused of? thats hillarious dude.. <<<<
 

Lol. Well, you are "accused" of being rude and condescending. And being unprofessional. But you are also "accused" of being helpful. I'm not trying to fight with anyone. I'm just presenting another view. I've actually tried to go out of my way to be niece.  :)



>>>and if you think for a minute i am losing money due to my posts guess again. <<<<
 

Like I said..your wasting time responding to people like me. I'd say that qualifies as losing at least some $, if your time is worth $. Plus potential clients. I've seen it over and over. People say that they wont do business with you cause of your ways. But hey, you make enough so f em, right?


>>>>frankly i wouldnt want you as a client you are way to smart for me.. its eveident you dont need my services, as after all building pro audio/vidio computers are so easy and there is never any compatibility issues ... (amazing i stil have a job must be the snake oil i sell) <<<

 

true I don't need your services and (**blush**) thanks for thinking I'm way too smart for you. lol.  But why do you need to lie and exaggerate to make your point?
I didn’t say you are selling snake oil. I said I'm sure your products are great. So you are putting words in my mouth. Lying really. And sure there can be compatibility issues. But not always. And if one is careful and does their research, those issues can be mostly eliminated.
 

>>>>funny this usually comes from a guy doing 10-15 tracks and has no need of low latency and is not a pro user.
generally thinks his system is finely tuned (oh wait no need for that either)
and his 1600 ram is probably running @ 1066 and dont even know it.. <<<<

 

ahh more of the condescending attitude. and exaggerations. People are stupid right? And talk about exaggerating. Computers have been able to run 80 plus tracks for over a decade. With pug ins and vstis. And no one said, at any point ( to my knowledge) that a finely tuned system isn’t desirable. I just said that its pretty ez to have a computer that is more than capable of being a great tool to realize just about any vision. With a little tweaking you really only have to do once. Especially now in these glorious times of more computer power than most even need.   And it's not just people with 10-15 tracks with no need for low latency.  Everyone wants the lowest latency. And a great song really doesnt need that many tracks. 


>>>to all those who are so smart i say come here and work for a few months.. and get to see first hand how simple it really is
how there is never any compatibility issues, (obviously never build a socket 2011)
and benchmark the performace gains from our un-needed useless tweaks and bios settings.. <<<

 
 

Again with the exaggerations. Who said they are useless and unneeded tweaks? I'm just saying its not really that hard. And when other users discover things that work they share it. Peer to peer forums are a wealth of knowledge. And you certainly contribute to that wealth. Besides a lot of those kind of benchmarks are misleading. What really matters is can someone make really great sounding music with computers available today? Very much so! The rest os for geeks.  I mean 10 years ago you where selling computers to professionals that where way underpowered by today's standards. And they managed to make music.


>>>you know why i get to be so cocky? i have seen every possible issue/scenario out there, every problem that can happen every compatibility potential as well as how NOT to do something. and resolved them all. been doing this longer than anyone (in biz non stop)
so i also have a system/setup longeivity idea as well. (only Roseberry has been around technicaly longer but took a few hiatus') <<<

 
 

that's fine but you aren't the only one that can put together a great system that will be very productive to someone. And I don’t think that's an excuse to be cocky.



>>>>lastly i dont claim to be that smart but i am smart enough to surround myself with employees who are.

when you debate with me you are debating with 12 people, most of who have been in this industry a very long time..

carry on the company bashing now.. <<<<

 
 

That's a good policy. "I wise man keeps good counse". Or something like that. And again you exaggerate. What company bashing?

>>>>just realized this is like the 3rd or 4th time you have tried this nonsense with me.. the others on Gearslutz<<<<

 


Paranoid much? lol. I'm not a member of gearslutz, though I do go there often.
2012/09/14 17:36:17
alexoosthoek
Wow.
2012/09/15 00:02:33
jm24

Stupid. Yea. We are all mostly stupid. Because we are ignorant we behave in ways that result in unintended consequences.  Cannot know everything about everything.

I work with dudes who get paid many hundreds of thousands of dollars.  They are good at what they do and are not really interested in learning about most anything but what they do real well.

They are not stupid about this, they are focused. And very ignorant about most of what happens on the planet. Cuz that is the way it is.

I provide them with help using a very complex device to do very few things as easily and quickly as they can be done. The learn what is only necessary. This makes them smart. But still ignorant.


No personal attack. I surmise you are young because of the tone of you comments. Most all the people I have known have become more tolerant as they have aged. Largely because they have learned to recognize their profound ignorance, and stupidity.

Your misinterpretation of others' comments and intentions, that you use to feed your anger and outrage, will result in you getting your way more often that you getting what you want. 'Tis a big difference.

This is because such emotions are mostly a waste of time and food.

At least you type well. A good skill to have.

j

2012/09/15 13:55:30
Jonbouy
This thread is a bloody disgrace.
 
Somebody who has experience has given some good tips on getting the most out of your DAW and has been backed up by his tech support guy on why it works has just met with the most appaling disrespect from those I can only imagine haven't tried any of the suggestions put forward.
 
If they had they will have seen the tangible benefits and not be limiting themselves to non-turbo speeds into the bargain.
 
It's just disrespectful posturing of the most puerile order and not one person has provided a shred of anything to back up any of the criticisms.  The reason being is nobody can back them up with anything practical or provide anything better.
 
All I can say is my system is setup exactly has been recommended here, and has been for some time, and there have been no downsides compared to limiting my CPU to it's non turbo speed and gaining intermittent pops and clicks at low latencies (down to 32 buffers) due to having HPET enabled. 
 
Remember I have absolutely zero affiliation with Scott or any hardware specialist that comes on this forum, but I've certainly learned where the good dope on configuring a DAW comes from.  I try what is suggested and if it works I run with it.  Scott has provided more pearls on this board than anyone I can think of and I personally can't thank him enough.
 
If anyone wants to scoff at that some more then feel free.  Personally though I'd rather see some more of the good stuff.  Anyone got any?
2012/09/15 19:39:17
alexoosthoek
Jonbouy


This thread is a bloody disgrace.
 
Somebody who has experience has given some good tips on getting the most out of your DAW and has been backed up by his tech support guy on why it works has just met with the most appaling disrespect from those I can only imagine haven't tried any of the suggestions put forward.
 
If they had they will have seen the tangible benefits and not be limiting themselves to non-turbo speeds into the bargain.
 
It's just disrespectful posturing of the most puerile order and not one person has provided a shred of anything to back up any of the criticisms.  The reason being is nobody can back them up with anything practical or provide anything better.
 
All I can say is my system is setup exactly has been recommended here, and has been for some time, and there have been no downsides compared to limiting my CPU to it's non turbo speed and gaining intermittent pops and clicks at low latencies (down to 32 buffers) due to having HPET enabled. 
 
Remember I have absolutely zero affiliation with Scott or any hardware specialist that comes on this forum, but I've certainly learned where the good dope on configuring a DAW comes from.  I try what is suggested and if it works I run with it.  Scott has provided more pearls on this board than anyone I can think of and I personally can't thank him enough.
 
If anyone wants to scoff at that some more then feel free.  Personally though I'd rather see some more of the good stuff.  Anyone got any?

Neither do I, I just happened to have three computers from Scott that worked right out of the box(and I'm sure Jim's would do that too)
 
Read their posts and decide what is best for you.
 
 
 
2012/09/16 11:48:53
Alegria
"Jonbouy"
This thread is a bloody disgrace.

I agree. Because of your OT personal attacks and disregard of your own good counsel on how to conduct yourself in a peer to peer forum.

"Jonbouy"
Personally though I'd rather see some more of the good stuff. Anyone got any?

"Bitflipper"
Far and away the best optimization anyone can do is to dedicate the machine to the single purpose of being an audio workstation.


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