Hello Everyone,

I am going to be buying studio monitors pretty soon and getting a new studio setup.  I used to use a fairly cheap pair of M-Audio's ($300 each speakers) and I always found the bass to be lacking.   If I buy better monitors, will I need a subwoofer?  I want to make sure I can hear all the low frequencies I am recording, but I hear it's not recommended to record and mix using a subwoofer, is this true?   Not sure if it matters, but I will be recording mainly electronic music.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Adam

aglewis723
If I buy better monitors, will I need a subwoofer?

Clearly, if you spend a lot of money on quality large monitors, the subwoofer becomes redundant.  A better question might be at what size woofer element in the monitors gets you sufficient bass.  You'll get a lot of different opinions.  Danny Danzi will tell you that you need one with 8" woofers in your monitors, I almost guarantee it.    Others may say that you need the subwoofer for monitors with only 6" woofers, but that 8" woofers will get you sufficient bass for mixing purposes.  Like I said, you'll probably get a lot of conflicting advise.
 

aglewis723
but I hear it's not recommended to record and mix using a subwoofer, is this true?

Don't know about tracking, but mixing with a subwoofer?  I don't ever recall seeing advise against doing that.  What you probably want to strive for is consistency.  Get to know your monitor setup well.  You might also want to check out the ARC system from ID Multimedia.  A lot of people swear by it, and I'm pretty impressed with it myself, so I'd recommend that (not that it becomes a substitute for a subwoofer).

whether it's digital, or analog sound, it doesn't matter..
sound is sound, and either you can hear the low range, or you cannot.
 
if you cannot, then you cannot mix it.
 
it's kind of a judgement call on your side, whether it's worth the money for better monitors or a cheap sub with cheap monitors.
 
me, i'd say better monitors improves your situation all the way around.
 
cheap sub paired with cheap monitors, is still going to leave you guessing.
 

I think what you are mixing comes into play too.  There are genres of music that use so much sub-bass that even quality monitors wit h8 inch woofers will come up short.  I realize that genres like that are highly specialized  and not that popular, but figure I would toss that out there just in case.

If it's electronic dance music, the genre demands hefty bass - hefty to the point where you're always walking a fine line between enough and too much. The ability to hear it would be crucial, as it can be for many other genres as well. Ideally you want to be able to hear flat down to 40Hz. Most 6.5" woofers can't quite manage that, so most smaller (under 8") nearfields will need the help of a separate subwoofer.
 
If you're thinking about buying better monitors and wondering if they might make the sub superfluous, that's a reasonable concern. High-end speakers with 8" or 10" woofers normally do make subs unnecessary. But those kinds of speakers are gonna cost ya! We're talking $3K and up. You might have to save up awhile, so I say get the sub now - you'll have no trouble selling it later.

Thanks everyone for your help thus far.   Wow Bitflipper, $3,000 huh?  I  was looking into these bad boys:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/ADAM-Audio-A7X-Powered-Studio-Monitor-105953897-i1563069.gc
 
if I buy these, you think I will need the sub huh?
 
What about mixing/mastering with a sub?  I heard so many people say that the golden rule is to NEVER mix/master with a Sub Woofer.
 
Thanks,
Adam

aglewis723
Thanks everyone for your help thus far.   Wow Bitflipper, $3,000 huh?  I  was looking into these bad boys:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/ADAM-Audio-A7X-Powered-Studio-Monitor-105953897-i1563069.gc
 
if I buy these, you think I will need the sub huh?
 
What about mixing/mastering with a sub?  I heard so many people say that the golden rule is to NEVER mix/master with a Sub Woofer.
 
Thanks,
Adam

Again, I've never heard/read advice against using a subwoofer in mixing or mastering.  What you don't want, however, is an inaccurately calibrated subwoofer level.  The advantage of non-subwoofer configurations is that you don't need to worry about that ... or at least you only have to worry that the manufacturer got the flat response right.
 
If you're looking at a GC purchase, then take some reference CDs in and just check the monitors out for delivering the goods on the low end (assuming you can hear anything in all that noise).  Maybe they'll let you take them home for an audition if you leave a deposit, or at least can offer a no-risk return policy.  And remember, if a subwoofer is in your budget, then so should an upgrade to the nearfields that would raise the price by what the subwoofer would cost ... that's pretty obvious.

aglewis723
Thanks everyone for your help thus far.   Wow Bitflipper, $3,000 huh?  I  was looking into these bad boys:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/ADAM-Audio-A7X-Powered-Studio-Monitor-105953897-i1563069.gc
 
if I buy these, you think I will need the sub huh?
 
What about mixing/mastering with a sub?  I heard so many people say that the golden rule is to NEVER mix/master with a Sub Woofer.
 
Thanks,
Adam

As dm has mentioned, I say always go with a sub. To me, it's a necessity no matter what monitors you use. See, though better monitors allow for more low end, most times they don't accentuate the RIGHT low end that a sub can give you. For example, look at this pic..
 
http://images.guitarcenter.com/products/optionLarge/ADAMAudio/DV016_Jpg_Large_H65551_rear_R.jpg
 
See the square box to the upper right that has 3 controls? They are fine tuners for those monitors. You can add some low, turn up the tweeter for a little more high end etc.
 
That said, I have those monitors as well as the regular A7's. They do NOT give me the right amount of low end like my Adam sub 8 does. To me it's a totally different type of low end that I will not second guess because of the sub. Without the sub....I'm always wondering "is the low end enough and is it the right low end?" This of course also depends on how tuned your monitors are. Either by literally tuning them with procedures you can find out about on the net, ARC by IK Multimedia, other forms of tuning...all this is important because then it tells you what you're faced with in the room as well as what the monitors are telling you. But to make a long story short, I use a sub in every room I work in...so for me, it's a necessity no matter what.
 
-Danny

Thanks to everyone for your input so far!    

I have  $300  pair of Mackie MR-5's ... 5" cones don't move much air for the bass.  So I bought a 10" 100w powered Polk Audio sub when I saw it at a good price. ( on sale for $250 IIRC)
 
Best thing I ever did for the sound in the studio. Well, maybe not the best, but definitely up there in the top 5.
 
Once you get it set up and adjusted properly, you can mix the lows because you can now hear and FEEL them.  Electronic music and synth stuff tends to use lots of really low synths, so you want to be able to hear that stuff accurately and the $300 or even the $500-600 monitors are not going to be able to deal with that program material effectively.
 
Even the bass and kick drum in country music (which is what I tend to mix most) is really easy to hear with a sub. Been to a country concert recently? The bass and kick are in your face. Not much wimpy low end these days at country events.
 
Yeah .... buy a sub. For a home studio, find one on sale and buy it. IMHO... a home audio sub will do fine. That's what I have.