2013/06/28 10:09:23
The Maillard Reaction
ampfixer
"I second the Avatar speaker cab. I used to make all the cabs for my amp heads but eventually I realized that it was better to buy these cabs if I wanted to make money."
 
 
"If you have the desire and ability, by all means build your own cab. I've owned all sorts but the best were the ones I built for myself."



+ a whole bunch.
 
I've yet to find a vendor who will make me a cabinet as nice as I want, let alone cheaper than I make them for myself.
 
I did find one guy who was building dovetail joint cabinets and I bought one but his work wasn't as clean as I do for my stuff.
 
I don't actually enjoy making cabinets... but I enjoy them when I am done.
 
The dado joint boxes don't do it for me... in fact if I was willing to make my own dado joint, pin and glue boxes I would quickly arrive at the conclusion that I can make them for a fraction of the price companies like Avatar charge. I guess that's just the nature of business. The companies have to find profit... they can't give you full value for your dollar unless you really value having someone else run a nail gun for you. It turns out it's easy to hide an Ikea grade joint under Tolex and people are happy.
 
all the best,
mike
 
2013/06/28 11:58:29
spacey
dxp
spacey
"Building" I thought was the keyword.
If so and the woodwork is not an issue -as you stated then
you're left with only three major decisions to make;
Cabinet design
Cabinet materials
Speaker selection
 
*cost is a factor but things change when the desire to create is the driving force. Nobody can
determine what that is worth to you.
 
"I built it" is what I would think is at the heart of it...and being the best you can do to achieve the
results you desire.
When I read opinions about points that aren't relevant to "building" I wonder if I'm understanding
your OP.
I also don't understand or agree with ignoring details. Especially in a closed back design or cabinets
containing the amp with the speakers.
I've heard many backyard cabinets what weren't worth the effort...more or less the cost.
 
If you were wanting opinions which would be better- to build or buy - in cost comparison
then the link I provided will help determine build cost and built if their offerings fit.
 
Speaker selection is personal.
Depending on how much I wanted to invest I would want to know my options and they'd probably
be;
One 12" cabinet and two different speakers so I could determine sonic preference.
Two cabinets each to hold one 12" and use two different speakers for same goal.
One cabinet for two 12" speakers- both being the same with plans to get others to hear.
One cabinet for 4-12" and one "tilt" cabinet for 4-12".
 
Size of speakers?
Many different sizes can work based on the design and number of speakers.
I've had cabinets with 6-8" that were fantastic.
 
Whatever it is you're wanting to do...good luck and have fun with it.
 
 




Yeah Spacey, 'building' still is the keyword here.
Admittedly what Avatar has to offer looks very good and if I choose to buy rather than build
I could find what I want there, for sure.
 
But the building project intrigues me. It's the "I did it" factor...
 
I do know I want 2 different speakers for flexibility.
2 small cabs good for flexibility, but 1 cab with selectable input jack for one or the other speaker or both would be acceptable in a larger cabinet.
 
Absolute worst case if I build something and it sounds like crap, I buy a cab and move the
speakers into it.
Wasted the cost of some material... not the end of the world.
As for my time, well if I'm out working in my shop then no matter the outcome, it is never
wasted time to me.
 


Then Mojo is a great place to know about. They have a great selection to help make it a pro looking
cabinet.
I've had beautiful hardwood cabinets (Boogie and Acoustic) that were used for gigging and what a
hassle. I custom made wheeled padded crates to haul and protect them and all the while thinking I
should get a different amp. They would have been better settin' in a studio looking pretty.
So what I planned on using it for would be a major factor in design.
Speakers?...cabinets designed good so that switching them out isn't a problem. ( so front load/rear load considered)
 
I have a mini stack Marshall with 2-10"..and those 10" will sure surprise you in the house.
 
If you do your homework on the speaker (spec's and mounting) and box design it won't sound like crap.
 
 
2013/06/28 12:07:30
DeeringAmps
ampfixer
"If you decide to go with 10's then you will want a 2x10 cab. The best value in a 10' driver is the Eminence Legend 1028 alnico."
 
That's the way I would go!
Get the Avatar cab with the removable back, best of both worlds.
 
Just my nickel98's worth...
 
Tom
 
 
2013/06/28 12:31:46
spacey
Dave I think it's popular opinion that you shouldn't build it yourself.
 
 
 
 
 
 
2013/06/28 13:44:34
dxp
spacey
Dave I think it's popular opinion that you shouldn't build it yourself.
 
 



LOL... and you guys haven't even SEEN my poor quality workmanship yet!!!!
 
I found and listened to a you tube 'speaker shootoff' segment.
of course audio quality is limited but in every example the Alnico speakers all sounded 'harsh'.
I do not recall at the moment which one it was, but I was surprised that the greenbacks or the V30 really were not my favorite choice from that video.
that was unexpected.
 
 
2013/06/28 14:06:03
spacealf
Now I remember more about it (it has been a few years and the book is gone nowadays), and actually Radio Shack had a book out similiar about building cabinets for speakers. The resonance test was for the 15" speaker, and the acoustic engineer (actually like a mechanical engineer or electrical engineer) was talking about building the optimum size cabinet for the speaker. Especially with JBL at the time, there was a range like stated where the speaker in a cabinet would work (without blowing it out or anything like that) and with the 15" speaker at the time I think (I may still have the specs from JBL after buying the raw speaker) it was a cabinet that was at least 1.5 cu ft by 6 cu ft. Imagine a Voice of Theater (without the wood bending horn part of the cabinet) for the 15" speaker. This acoustic engineer said that there was an optimum size cabinet for any speaker. Finding that size would give the best frequency response and of course it was geared more for in that size range of a 15" speaker, a 10" speaker, and bullet ring radiators at the time was a PA system like or even a huge stereo speaker cabinet type cabinets.
 
Anyway, they did print books about any of that, that a person could buy to build a speaker cabinet instead of just - well here it is, hope it works type cabinet.
 
In other words the cabinets they make for speakers are usually just about or at the size needed for the speaker or speakers. Just going by the size of existing cabinets you may turn out with something that sounds good, but then you have to wonder about all the work it involves and getting the speaker grill and whatever that manufacturers can to put it all together anyway. Nowadays it seems as if it is something that is harder to do than it was in the past (unless there are places where they still sell everything you would need.).
 
Wheels on the cabinet to move it around - whatever.
 
Buying a cabinet is usually easier, unless you want to try and imagine or work out what sound from the speaker and cabinet you really want - and some already built cabinets are not going to cut that, and others may be okay, but tweaking the cabinet with the speaker is going to take some engineering work perhaps just learning why cabinets are built the way they are.
 
Using pressed wood to built it, or oak plywood, or whatever wood because density of the wood also plays into the sound of the total package. Wood usually lets through 15% of the sound out the sides and back of the cabinet. Bricks are the about best at 1%. Fiberglass resin hard inside of a cabinet lets out 2% of the sound out the back and sides. That can be found in a Electrical Handbook if a person wants to know about sound propagation and anything like that.
 
What if any of that is necessary to you as a speaker cabinet designer as well as the dimensions of height, width, length of the cabinet and how you want it to look and how functional you want it to be.
 
And then you have to dampen the cabinet with fiberglass and tune the cabinet when it is all done and all of that in the end. Get those little 1.5" D cell batteries to make sure the positive (moves the speaker cone out) is actually what side it is, sometimes those terminal posts are not.
 
Even if you buy a cabinet, it is best (if you want to) to buy the speaker, then do some testing with the speaker and then work out the dimensions of a cabinet suited for the speaker, and then buy the cabinet, unless you want to build a cabinet.

Well, good luck.
 
2013/06/28 14:27:11
spacey
Ah don't let the little bit of info gathering bother you Dave.
Cabinets for guitar aren't that technical...not like PA , home stereo etc.
Even if you want to tune a closed cabinet...here.
 
You can get the frequency response of the speaker from the manufacturer.
For example;
Celestion G1265 specs

 
Use so good plywood. More plys the better if you don't go hardwood.
2013/06/28 14:37:17
dxp
you know, the beauty of all this is I can build a cabinet and it could be rockin' awesome or it could suk, totally suk, and neither one would really matter because of my lack of talent as a musician...
 
       
 
2013/06/28 15:58:38
Guitarhacker
You know.... While it's easier to buy something off the floor of a store, it's also a ton of fun to build something.
 
In the day, I have built or been involved in more than one speaker cab build. The interesting thing is store bought speakers come in all sizes and dimensions, so I'm thinking it's pretty hard to go wrong on a guitar cab design/build. Build it to the size you want for the number and size of the speakers you plan to load it with.
 
the main thing is to use good quality wood/plywood, and brace it and glue it so it can survive the bumps and drops and won't start rattling and buzzing over time.Nothing sux like a buzzing cab on those resonate low notes.
 
I was partial to EV 12" speakers. They are highly efficient.... giving a nice SPL for a given wattage input, and crisp and clean sounding with a nice bright sound to them. Power handling is not as critical with a good speaker like the EV, but getting a clean bright efficient sound is. I had EV's in a number of my rigs and in the PA too.
2013/06/28 16:52:49
spacealf
No matter what you do (after looking at that link provided by spacey) the speaker and cabinet combine to form a system - whether it turns out to be a little Art or exact according to whomever who wants you to caculate these parameters and how it is to sound - it has to satisfy you in the end.
 
Well, good luck!
Here's a link perhaps even good (I did not look at it all the way).
 
The fine art of musical instrument and speaker making, is combining efficiency and power, responding with clarity and evenness, complying within the 3 octave rule, 1 decade.   A musical instrument and speaker may be efficient but uncontrolled which means the sound is colored the notes uneven without clarity.   Many cheap musical instruments and speakers behave this way.   An instrument or speaker may be in-efficient having a flat response the notes even but lacking dynamic expression and responsiveness, requiring to be played harder to be heard.

http://lenardaudio.com/education/05_speakers.html


Musical Education 101 I guess!

 
 
http://www.duncanamps.com..hnical/speaker_cab.html


More links upon searching.
 
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