craigb
I bet Pedro probably likes Merzbow! 

Of course you would not believe me and the story behind the music with Herb Ernst. You ought to reach him, and ask about it, and if you want to hear a recording of it, I have to ask the artist lady if I can share it, which I can do privately at home, but not in any other way, at this time. 
 
You have no sense of adventure and experimentation, and anything anyone says is wrong, until you see it in the tube. Too bad you never got to see the psychic experimentation I did with actors at UCSB ... they were really good and the results even better, but you don't believe in that stuff and how it affects and helps "creativity". You think creativity is looking at your DAW and putting/stretching another note!
 
It's not a matter of "liking". It's a matter of making sense of the sequence of noises and its artistry. Or you can take the sound effects library and a pile driver and loop it ... lots of talent for you Craig, since you do not read things here, and only find silly comments.
 
FAUST, for the most part was a lot of noise.
 
Ax Gernrich of Guru Guru in his early albums had all the noise a guitar could make that Jimi also had in concert that all producers in America made sure you did not hear, because it was not a song! On his solo albums, they are even weirder with a banjo and strange instruments.
 
The drummer in Grobbschnitt (Eroc) also has a lot of weirdness and noise in his solo albums, and they are fun to listen to.
 
Or, if you get bored, there is always MFrogg (Jean Yves Labat) that had a lot of fun with Rodd Tundgroon and in at least one cut it is all about swearing in echo and distortion for your delectation. 
 
Another noise artist, and sometimes mostly sound effects is Ron Geesin, and his albums are always fun to listen to ... but at times a bit weird, as you can not see any logic, other than just experimentation, it seems.
 
Eduard Artemiev was doing "noise" as music long before you even heard of Jarre, Vangelis or Tangerine Dream.
 
Bernard Herrman, used Theramins and other new electronic "things" to create some sounds for many of his sci-fi films.
 
Soundtracks like "Forbidden Planet", and a few others had so much "noise" as to actually make folks uncomfortable with the soundtrack. 
 
George Harrison's Lectronic Sounds is more about the noise than it is anything else ... totally experimental, but at least you don't hear two folks having sex in the background, like his friend did later! That's a few too many sounds for YO haters!
 
The only "noise" I object to, is the one that is often considered "classical music", and it has no feeling, no flow, and no show, and it is just like some of your comments ... no sense or pride or prejudice ... just senseless.
 
When you want to look at "noise" in music, my collection is open for you to look at ... ohh, did I mention early CAN and even Holger Czukay?
 
I thought you knew your music, and even my listening habits, including my history of listening, now for 45 years! Maybe you think I only listen to top ten songs and have no idea what albums or MUSIC is really all about! You better look in the mirror, boy!

 

Here ya go Pedro!  This is actually one of his more musical albums.  See if I was right! 

Moshkito

craigb
I bet Pedro probably likes Merzbow! 

Of course you would not believe me and the story behind the music with Herb Ernst. You ought to reach him, and ask about it, and if you want to hear a recording of it, I have to ask the artist lady if I can share it, which I can do privately at home, but not in any other way, at this time. 
 
You have no sense of adventure and experimentation, and anything anyone says is wrong, until you see it in the tube. Too bad you never got to see the psychic experimentation I did with actors at UCSB ... they were really good and the results even better, but you don't believe in that stuff and how it affects and helps "creativity". You think creativity is looking at your DAW and putting/stretching another note!
 
It's not a matter of "liking". It's a matter of making sense of the sequence of noises and its artistry. Or you can take the sound effects library and a pile driver and loop it ... lots of talent for you Craig, since you do not read things here, and only find silly comments.
 
FAUST, for the most part was a lot of noise.
 
Ax Gernrich of Guru Guru in his early albums had all the noise a guitar could make that Jimi also had in concert that all producers in America made sure you did not hear, because it was not a song! On his solo albums, they are even weirder with a banjo and strange instruments.
 
The drummer in Grobbschnitt (Eroc) also has a lot of weirdness and noise in his solo albums, and they are fun to listen to.
 
Or, if you get bored, there is always MFrogg (Jean Yves Labat) that had a lot of fun with Rodd Tundgroon and in at least one cut it is all about swearing in echo and distortion for your delectation. 
 
Another noise artist, and sometimes mostly sound effects is Ron Geesin, and his albums are always fun to listen to ... but at times a bit weird, as you can not see any logic, other than just experimentation, it seems.
 
Eduard Artemiev was doing "noise" as music long before you even heard of Jarre, Vangelis or Tangerine Dream.
 
Bernard Herrman, used Theramins and other new electronic "things" to create some sounds for many of his sci-fi films.
 
Soundtracks like "Forbidden Planet", and a few others had so much "noise" as to actually make folks uncomfortable with the soundtrack. 
 
George Harrison's Lectronic Sounds is more about the noise than it is anything else ... totally experimental, but at least you don't hear two folks having sex in the background, like his friend did later! That's a few too many sounds for YO haters!
 
The only "noise" I object to, is the one that is often considered "classical music", and it has no feeling, no flow, and no show, and it is just like some of your comments ... no sense or pride or prejudice ... just senseless.
 
When you want to look at "noise" in music, my collection is open for you to look at ... ohh, did I mention early CAN and even Holger Czukay?
 
I thought you knew your music, and even my listening habits, including my history of listening, now for 45 years! Maybe you think I only listen to top ten songs and have no idea what albums or MUSIC is really all about! You better look in the mirror, boy!

you're a psychic now? smh.  You do realize the level of narcissism it takes to write these lengthy tropes don't you?  Alas, it takes a good level of narcissism to believe the song one is about to write is worth being born.  I don't use narcissism for that, rather pretense.  PRETENSE is where all creative ideas begin.  Carry on my little pet.

Moshkito

craigb
I bet Pedro probably likes Merzbow! 

Of course you would not believe me and the story behind the music with Herb Ernst. You ought to reach him, and ask about it, and if you want to hear a recording of it, I have to ask the artist lady if I can share it, which I can do privately at home, but not in any other way, at this time. 
 
You have no sense of adventure and experimentation, and anything anyone says is wrong, until you see it in the tube. Too bad you never got to see the psychic experimentation I did with actors at UCSB ... they were really good and the results even better, but you don't believe in that stuff and how it affects and helps "creativity". You think creativity is looking at your DAW and putting/stretching another note!
 
It's not a matter of "liking". It's a matter of making sense of the sequence of noises and its artistry. Or you can take the sound effects library and a pile driver and loop it ... lots of talent for you Craig, since you do not read things here, and only find silly comments.
 
FAUST, for the most part was a lot of noise.
 
Ax Gernrich of Guru Guru in his early albums had all the noise a guitar could make that Jimi also had in concert that all producers in America made sure you did not hear, because it was not a song! On his solo albums, they are even weirder with a banjo and strange instruments.
 
The drummer in Grobbschnitt (Eroc) also has a lot of weirdness and noise in his solo albums, and they are fun to listen to.
 
Or, if you get bored, there is always MFrogg (Jean Yves Labat) that had a lot of fun with Rodd Tundgroon and in at least one cut it is all about swearing in echo and distortion for your delectation. 
 
Another noise artist, and sometimes mostly sound effects is Ron Geesin, and his albums are always fun to listen to ... but at times a bit weird, as you can not see any logic, other than just experimentation, it seems.
 
Eduard Artemiev was doing "noise" as music long before you even heard of Jarre, Vangelis or Tangerine Dream.
 
Bernard Herrman, used Theramins and other new electronic "things" to create some sounds for many of his sci-fi films.
 
Soundtracks like "Forbidden Planet", and a few others had so much "noise" as to actually make folks uncomfortable with the soundtrack. 
 
George Harrison's Lectronic Sounds is more about the noise than it is anything else ... totally experimental, but at least you don't hear two folks having sex in the background, like his friend did later! That's a few too many sounds for YO haters!
 
The only "noise" I object to, is the one that is often considered "classical music", and it has no feeling, no flow, and no show, and it is just like some of your comments ... no sense or pride or prejudice ... just senseless.
 
When you want to look at "noise" in music, my collection is open for you to look at ... ohh, did I mention early CAN and even Holger Czukay?
 
I thought you knew your music, and even my listening habits, including my history of listening, now for 45 years! Maybe you think I only listen to top ten songs and have no idea what albums or MUSIC is really all about! You better look in the mirror, boy!

craigb
 

Here ya go Pedro!  This is actually one of his more musical albums.  See if I was right! 

HELDON is what this reminds me off. Sometimes, it is really hard to listen to, but the first 4 or 5 albums are almost a complete assault of noise with a guitar and other things.
 
Merzbow is OK for my tastes, and I might even spring for a few CD's. 

eph221
 
...
you're a psychic now? smh. 

 
Never claimed that. However, I was really good at using a lot of the so-called "psychic" this and that and mix it in acting, theater and film, and specially writing. I am of the opinion that the best use of that ability, is in the arts, and not telling you what kind of person you are, and what not. It could even be stated that I picked up a lot of those ideas from the Carlos Castaneda books, and the truth of the matter, is/was, that many of those bits and pieces worked, which changes the content and idea of what those books are about, and what people think about him and his books. And the book about dreaming, is the best on the subject EVER written ... but you wouldn't be interested. They probably scare you to death, no?
 
Craig knows I meant no harm, or foul, and he knows I listen to music. You, on the other hand, would rather comment on nothing, than the meat of the subject!
 
Such talent! And you think yourself a musician and artist? Putting down fellow artists for their work?

All I can say is, whether you believe in psychics or not, they can be a bit disturbing to be around!  I took a few PhD classes with Toni Attell (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0040997/?ref_=tt_cl_t6) who not only was a professional mime and actress (including being Robin William's acting coach), but a Hollywood psychic.  She was my work partner for two classes and the level of accuracy (with me and others) was VERY scary.  We were at the annual Hypnotherapy conference in a hotel that was also hosting a tech. conference the same week.  We came out of one session and a guy (in his 40's) at a tech. booth made the cheeky comment "So you're with of the woo woo's, eh?"  Tony's reply after a brief second pause was "Hmm... You're probably still blaming yourself for your sister's death when she was 13, aren't you?"  He turned completely white and mumbled "I've got to go..."  A couple of hours later we went by the booth and he wasn't there.  The girl that was there said he left immediately after the comment to go up to his hotel room and hasn't been back since.  Then she asked how Tony knew about the incident with the guy's sister, since he'd never mentioned it before.  Tony felt bad but told me the information just comes.  I found it can also be unnerving for her too because when others are around her, they sometimes get personal information about her (I did)!

ya, ya whatever.  Sting(y) and Jung had it right.  It's more a synchrony of various data that contains a grain of truth.  If that guides you in your life, them who am I to question it.  I'll stick with dice and god (and Bapu)

eph221
ya, ya whatever.  Sting(y) and Jung had it right.  It's more a synchrony of various data that contains a grain of truth.  If that guides you in your life, them who am I to question it.  I'll stick with dice and god (and Bapu)

There is a lot more of this kind of stuff in music, than we're willing to understand or accept. In fact, just about all of the arts. I think (I THINK) that the "slower" one does these things (like painting a picture, or composing on a DAW and changing everything each and every time you look at it), the sloppier it gets, and in the end, the trick is to learn to interpret and understand the message when it arrives, and that is not something that we apply ourselves to a whole lot, and it is very visible in relationships.
 
The one thing I like to say is ... show us your beauty ... not your crass. All of the arts, are special in one way or another and how one does it, is not as important as the end product that others can hear and perceive in their own way ... but if the product and story changes each minute, your ability and mine stops being helpful and usable.
 
This was the biggest trick about working with actors, and teaching them to have enough comfort and trust in their knowledge of the lines they had to deliver, that they could do this anywhere in their sleep and in the kitchen, differently of course, but it would still apply.
 
I've always tried, and have done it a couple of times, to use this with musicians, but of all the artist types, the toughest are musicians, and I think it is because they are too married to their numerology of the notes, instead of the feeling of the notes. Thus, seeing someone making diagrams for the music, and Mike Oldfield even has a picture of one that he and Mr. Thunderclap Newman did of one of his pieces, so they would be able to put it together properly and correctly the way Mike envisioned it, while recording it. It's in his biography.
 
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=111098
 
All in all, I would think for a Vangelis, Edgar Froese, Mike Oldfield, or Ryuichi Sakamoto, to explain their "score" is probably too difficult, and a diagram is probably better. They can likely tell you what they will do in each of those details ... is my experience. I kinda do the same in my dreams, with some writing, though when the time comes and the basic thing starts, it takes a life of its own, but the characterization and basic details all come out just fine, even if dressed in a different sweater, and with jeans instead of pants!
 
See, music is just as good for these things as any other art!
 
 

Have you learned nothing?  Academic (nuanced) narratives aren't any truer than simple straightforward narratives.  They just may sound like it to some (not enough to win the game btw).  Get over yourselves!