• Computers
  • Building computer need suggestions (p.2)
2012/06/20 23:28:36
slartabartfast
If money were no object, I assume you would just go on paying for studio time. As others have noted, there are more cost effective choices. But aside from the cost issue, there is more to optimizing your choices of DAW components than just the money. It is not all that uncommon for someone to buy or build a machine that has the best specs and reviews on the gamer sites, only to find that it is unsuitable for use as a DAW. No motherboard manufacturer is designing his board for audio, but many are aiming at the gamer market. Many of the features that look good on a spec sheet, will actually interfere with the smooth operation of audio software and hardware. Things that you do not need include raid, wireless, high end video etc. In order to get pretty pictures streaming for the gamers, it is common to steal slices of processor time from more mundane tasks that make audio run. Unless (and even if) you are very sophisticated at tweaking your machine, it may be difficult to turn off all the bells and whistles on a monster machine. The choices for the optimum DAW are constrained by the audio hardware and software you plan to use, and what you plan to do with them.
 
Your first choice in live audio recording is your audio interface. You need to know how many tracks you are going to be feeding into your computer, and how you are going to connect your interface. You do not need firewire (IEEE 1394) unless you are hooking up a firewire device. If you are planning to use a dozen microphones without combining them in an external mixer, you need a dozen microphone inputs somewhere. The best onboard audio (built in to the motherboard) is only going to have a stereo miniplug for input i. e. two tracks. What kind of microphones are you going to use? Do you need phantom power, or preamps? Are you ready for some major sticker shock when people start recommending professional quality mics? The good news is that audio interfaces tend to survive at least a couple of computer upgrade cycles, but if you guess wrong on the future of the connection protocol, you may find yourself stuck with an unusable device sooner rather than later.
 
The actual computer power needed to record a practical number of tracks without effects is quite modest. Huge memory is more useful to people using multiple instances of synthesizers and streaming orchestra-sized sample sets. Mixing and applying effects is not as demanding, and operations can be done on a few tracks at at time.
 
You do not say who will be using your equipment. Paying someone to do your recording, mixing and mastering, is not the same as renting his equipment. The dirty little secret that Cakewalk and their competitors do not want the world to know, is that using their stuff to get professional quality music is not easy. I would not begin to advise you on this, except to say that it may require as much time as it takes to learn to produce the music on a musical instrument to learn to record and process the sound into a professional recording.
I use Sonar as a hobby, and my product is far from professional. Sonar is more of a toy that makes my synths work, and I enjoy noodling with it for a few hous at a time. If I were looking to make a band sound good, I would probably be better off going to work at Walmart and saving my money to pay someone who knows what he is doing.
2012/06/21 00:57:05
Beepster
Okay... so I actually ended up screwing around with my own stuff a little longer than anticipated so I'm gonna just give you a couple links and basic advice. Also slartabartfaster has made some excellent points but they might be a little in depth to understand for someone just poking their head into the world of DAWs. I also kind of disagree on the point that you NEED a big studio to make a good recording happen. It is indeed preferable to get things recorded by the big multimillion dollar studios but by the time you spend a few days in one of those places you could have built your own system. So three days with guys trying to rush you out the door or years being able to really get things the way you want. That extra time means a LOT when writing/recording. Besides, you can spend the extra time tracking your stuff with your own gear and send it off to a studio anyway so you get the best of both worlds (just don't turn things up too much!!!)

So I realized I may have been giving you bad advice as far as where your money should go... well not BAD advice but if you have the money you really would be better off getting a pro company to build a system for you. They really aren't THAT much more expensive but it saves a huge hassle and they'll set things up properly for an audio computer. They know the parts to use. They know how to configure things. They just know. So that said you should check out what Cakewalk has to say and recommend on this topic (this is where I started over a year ago when my home built system was but a twinkle in my eye)....

http://www.cakewalk.com/PCResource/default.aspx

Here's the link to systems that are Cakewalk approved...

http://www.cakewalk.com/PCResource/buy.aspx

In the desktops section (and probably the other sections as well) you'll see systems built by a company called ADK. They seem to me the most likely to give a quality custom build for a DAW and offer the best support after. These systems get rave reviews anytime I see the name mentioned on various forums.

http://www.adkproaudio.com/

If you look through their audio computer sections you'll be able to at the very least see what goes into a proper audio rig. I learned a ton from that site and wish I could have afforded to spend the extra money to get them to build me one.

Anyway, as I said I will come back tomorrow and toss some more info your way and I haven't touched on interfaces yet but those resources are an excellent place to start and begin to realize exactly what you are going to be up against if you intend to build your own. For me it took over a year to research, purchase and build my system and it was a PAIN in the butt. But I loved it because I have nothing better to do and to me it's interesting. Anyone with a real life though will probably get extremely frustrated very quickly. I also had a super high end tech on my side to help me through the process which most people do not have. I would have been completely lost without my friend's advice.

Just giving you the heads up... it's a lot of work.

I'll be back tomorrow. Cheers.
2012/06/21 12:04:51
August
Thanks for the info! Money is not the problem in regards to the studio time.  I boiled down more to the actual time of when I could get all the band together and spend all day at the studio.  By having my own studio, I can break up the time and get the best out of them.  I do live sound so the majority of my equipment is geared for that.  I run a couple of Soundcraft mixing boards and I took one of the smaller 20ch boards and am using that one in the control room.  I have 8 condenser mics and 4 cardioid mics.  I am going to be picking up a dedicated condenser for the studio or try out a ribbon mic, not sure which way to go on that yet.  I do have my own Recording Engineer and he uses Sonar as well, hence the reason I have  gone the Sonar route.  As of right now my main focus is on my son's band , but I have already recorded an individual soloist.  She used backing tracks and just her vocals.  I am planning on recording other bands as well and when I record it's usually between 6-mics for the drums and mics for the vocals as well as for the instruments, all told around 16 mics at a time is not uncommon.  Hope that gives a bit more of the bigger picture.  I agree with all that you have said , that's why I initially asked which one of those mobo's would work better for audio as gaming is completely different.  
2012/06/21 12:33:04
jcschild
i have to agree. the 3960 is a foolish purchase.
the 3930k is a smarter buy. based on your needs (i can pretty much guess) its still way beyond overkill.
the 2600 is more than enough power for your needs and even its overkill for tracking.

"""I look at this way, it's better to have it and not need it than it's better to not have it and need it.''''

its like saying hey my truck can pull my small 17' boat but i think i need to buy a full size mackie tractor trailer truck. seriously?

the fact you didnt realize you need a pro level interface tells me all i need to know about how heavy your workflow would be.

you are way overspending. buy less computer and then you can afford a decent interface. sounds like you need at least a 16 in interface.

2012/06/21 12:52:03
August
ok, will look at the 3930k.  Do you have a suggestion on the motherboard choice?
2012/06/21 12:52:31
Middleman
I just built a new system with the Asus Sabertooth x79 and the i7 3930k, 8GB of Ram. This system screams. 12 CPU threads on 6 cores shows up as 12 cores in X1. Latency is an unbelievable .72ms at 32 buffers with 45 tracks of plugin laden audio and a few VIs. The system has more overhead than I will probably ever push.

I duplicated all my tracks to run it up to 90 total the average cpu load hovered at 40%.
2012/06/21 12:57:42
August
Was there a reason you went with the  Sabertooth  instead of the P9?
2012/06/21 13:14:56
Middleman
Yes, there are no PCI slots on the P9 only PCIe and I need at least one of those slots for my Lynx Two-A audio card.
 
Also note. Some of these higher end ASUS boards come with ACHI set in the bios. I would bet your current systems is IDE if you are just swapping out Motherboards. Make sure you set the bios setting to IDE so you don't spend a couple of hours wondering why you are getting bluescreens.
2012/06/21 13:22:56
August
So, I really need to know which audio card I'm going to use before I decide on which mobo.  Any suggestions?
2012/06/21 13:25:30
Middleman
That depends on your budget and your quality appetite.
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