my classical guitar teacher, back in the day, told me that once he was recorded using 3 mics: one close (~12 inches), one 3' away and one on the other side of the room (following the rule of 3 essentially). he said it was the best classical guitar sound he'd ever heard.

i agree with mike - if you want a "what you hear" sound, then omni by the ear is the way to go. if it's not solo work, though, that may not be the ticket.

for what it's worth, i used to record my acoustic using an x/y pattern, but instead of two matched mics (because i'm really cheap) i used an SDC instrument mic (MXL603s) and an SM57. the 603s was pointed toward the bridge and the 57 was pointed toward the neck. i usually lined up the mics around the 12th fret to avoid directly picking up the soundhole. this gave me a pretty thick sound, which i panned hard left/right for a wider feel. because the mics were vastly unmatched, the wideness effect was pronounced but not over the top.


since then i've stopped doing that as i generally had to cut out big portions of low end, but in this situation it might work for a fuller sound. 

Typically classical guitar is done with a main pair at least 8-9 feet from the instruments.  Most likely AB spaced pair with one or two spots 3 or so feet from the instrument.  Of course the better the mics, the better the sound.  Typical mics for this are DPA4006, Neumann KM130 or 183, or Schoeps CMC62(s,h) (or the cardioid equivalent).  I personally like and use the Josephson C617set which are just fantastic.  I have also heard good things about the less expensive AKG c451b mics on classical guitar, but have never tried them.

A NOS stereo pair plus a couple Omni spots would work well in a less than desirable room.  Or you can just use a stereo pair about 5-6 feet away to taste.  Don't try to treat is as a single source with close mics, but use the stereo pattern to record the whole instrument and the room at once.  The trouble is, if the rooms sounds bad, the recording will suffer, there is only so much reverb can do to disguise nasty reflections.  The best thing to do is record in a church or small hall. 

A useful setup is an M/S setup resonably close 2 or 3 feet away in a deadish area. The convolution reverbs are so good and nice now you can put the guitar into any situation but you also have the the more intimate close up sound to work with too. 

But looking at your OP the M/S setup 6 to 8 feet away in a nice sounding room could also be the a good option. At least with M/S you have some choices later in post production.

If you are going to the trouble of getting into a nice space do both. 2 M/S setups, one close in and the other 8 to 10 feet away. You will need 4 tracks but will have a lot of options later then.

The distant setup might work with the M microphone in omni and the S figure 8 as usual side on. The closer setup could have cardioid and figure 8 as per usual. Measure the distance between the close and distant setups too so you can alter the timing of them if you are using both for any reason at once in the mixdown.

You don't want the room too big and wet. A little wood and carpet in the right size room can be very effective. If you are doing distant setups make 3 test recordings different distances away. eg 3 feet, 6 feet, 9 feet etc. I did this with a clarinet quartet and we listened there (need some reasonable speakers on the job though)  and were able to decide what the nicest distance was to use. Take the guesswork out of it.

mike_mccue


When I do it, I like use one of my "shotgun" mics, like a MKH70 or a MKH60.


The omni comment was referring to the way our ears hear in omnidirection.


best,
mike

gotcha, that makes sense

Make sure the guitar sounds good in the room.
I you have them, use a pair of small diaphragm omni's... or LD condensers that have a thin diaphragm (will respond similar to small diaphragm mics).  Typical LDC mics may fatten/thicken the guitar too much.
Move around the guitar (using your ears) to find the sweet-spot.
That should capture what you're hearing in the room.

Personally, I would have thrown another mic further out and maybe some verb on his mix.

I'll point out that in Craig Anderton's Advanced Workshop for Sonar X1, the first one he did, has a chapter just on this topic. It's very specific and very inspiring. You can really get some good ideas from what he conveys. It's Chapter 16 to be exact. I go back to replay that segment more than occasionally. His tutorial is worth the investment.

Thanks for all the input.  I forgot to mention that my room is small (12' x 12') and just about totally dead, lots of absorbers.

Thanks again,

Tom

Hi Tom, I've tried almost every possible way of recording a classical guitar, and was a concert guitarist myself for a while, so it's a topic I feel quite qualified to comment on. Here's what I've learnt;

Your setup is going to depend on the style of music your client is recording - classical, or 'pop'. Let's deal with classical first...

Classical music in the 'right' room
- Put your gear in your car and go to a purpose built recital hall or a church with suitable acoustics. Sounds like a lot of effort (and it is!) but totally worth it, trust me. I won't go into what the 'right' room should look like - there's plenty of info out there on that already. Just make sure that whatever venue you choose, that it is very, very quiet! CG is a quiet instrument anyway, and you won't be close micing for classical music, so the noise floor of the room becomes a very real issue.

- If he's playing classical music, limit yourself to true stereo configurations. I personally hate the results yielded from 'bastardised' stereo pairs/multi-mic setups in this context. It sounds very unnatural, which for some reason I always perceive as an undesirable quality when listening to classical music.

- I like an M/S configuration for CG playing classical music when in a suitable room. I need to go to work, so I won't go into why I prefer this setup - I just do! You won't need an additional room mic, just fade up the side signal to add the ambience you require. And don't worry that the majority of your mixdown will come from the 'M' signal - there isn't any stereo information on a guitar at the distance you need to place the mics anyway - your depth and space will come from the side mic. A Blumlein pair also works well, but placement is much more critical I've found, as you must get the ambience levels (distance from the player) correct at the time of recording, which can be hard to judge, depending on your monitoring setup. X/Y and ORTF don't work so well in this context when you pull the mics back. A/B spaced pair can work, but don't space them far apart. 

- For classical music, start by placing your stereo pair about 1.5 - 2 metres from the player. Every room, player, and instrument is vastly different, so you must allow a good chunk of time for experimenting with distances and height for your stereo pair. If you get too close to the player, you get too much 'nail clicking' - a sound all guitarists hate. If you place the mics too far away, there will be too much of the room in your signal, and background noise becomes increasingly problematic. Listen, listen, listen!

-  Don't try and overcomplicate things. As with all classical recording, you need to spend more time experimenting with placement, but once you get it right, roll with it. Don't go trying to add mics all around the room just because you can, or because you saw it in a magazine, or because you want to use all of your toys. You shouldn't need any more than 2 mics to make a stunning recording of a classical guitar in the right room.

Classical music in the 'wrong' room
- The room you described is definitely the wrong room :-) Is there any way you can move to a different room, even if it's just another room in your house? That 12' x 12' is going to kill you!
- If you can relocate to a larger room that isn't a square, you can still pull the mics back further than you normally would, but it's impossible to comment more on this without hearing your room, as that will change everything. Is it a 'dead' space that you've treated? Whatever the case, listen out for nail clicking - yuck.
- Even when the room is bad, I still prefer to stick with true stereo configurations for classical music.

Popular music on nylon string guitar
- Anything goes! Again, i don't want to sound like one of those pretentious, arrogant so-and-sos, but without providing more details about the project, I don't want to comment more on this, as your setup will vary hugely, depending on what it's for. For instance, is it a solo recording? What genre? What other instruments, if any? Music for media?
- Your ears rule here (as always!) - have an idea of what you'd like to hear, then set out to achieve that sound.
- Watch for excessive proximity effect if close micing with directionals
- I'm sure you've heard the usual advice - lots of lows around the body of the guitar, very muddy at the soundhole, more midrangey the further up the neck you go.

I'm sorry, I'd love to go on but I've got to go to work (incidently, recording myself playing CG for a TV ad ) but that should be enough to get you thinking. Feel free to provide more details, and I'll see if I can give you more specific advice.


If you listen to Nuages here, that one was recorded with a single M/S pair in a recital hall with budget gear.