• Hardware
  • Guitar pedals for ambient sounds?
2015/08/23 15:03:03
maximumpower
I am seeing a lot of videos of people chaining multiple delays to get ambient sounds with a guitar. How do these delay pedals compare to reverb algorithms (I.E. Eventide Blackhole, Valhalla, etc...)?
 
Is there some quality that those delays (Strymon Dig, TC Triple delay, etc...) get that is different from those reverb algorithms?
 
I realize a delay can do things beyond ambient sounds that a reverb can't do but I am asking just about the ambient sounds.
 
Thanks
2015/08/24 01:33:33
tlw
Quite a difference to not much depending on pedal and reverb plugins being compared.

Which probably isn't a very helpful answer :-)

Having said that, delay and reverb are related but very different things. And "ambient" covers a wide range.

For what it's worth I have a variety of delay pedals collected over the years (decades even). If I'm tracking guitar and want anything more complex than a Deluxe Memory Man can do I tend to use delay plugins, and even then I might well use a plugin. The advantage the plugins have is the settings are retained when the project is saved, so you can always get the settings back if you decide to track some more or need to punch in later.

While it's true that a delay plugin isn't quite the same as a good analogue delay like the DMM or MXR Carbon Copy, plugin delays like Boz Digital's one can do things no pedal can, and you can have as many instances of a plugin as your cpu can stand.

As for digital delay pedals, the TC ones sound very good in my opinion, Boss not so much and Line 6 even less. TC's delays you can sync to the DAW with MIDI are a very good idea.

I don't seem to play live much these days, but when I do I use pedals, often a Boss Dd-20 which isn't my favourite but has useful memory functions, and unless the tempo is fixed by a sequencer or drum machine tap tempo is essential in case delay time needs to be adjusted because the band's timing has slipped. Plus a Carbon Copy set to low feedback and delay time of around 300ms as a "thickening" delay.

The short answer is that analogue bucket-brigade delays don't sound like the digital or software "analogue" delays, but are more limited in what they can do. Tape delays are expensive, need maintenance and are generally a nuisance to deal with.

As for reverb, for ambient stuff where I'm recording using a Sansamp, I like Overloud's Springage. Not quite the same as my Fender valve reverb unit but still impressive. Also the reverbs that come with Sonar, all of which are good. I've no experience of reverb pedals because my Fender unit covers anything I'm likely to want to run with an amp.
2015/08/24 03:36:41
RSMCGUITAR
Self-oscillation is a cool feature on some delay pedals. 
2015/08/24 11:25:30
b rock
Good points on the true analog(ue) versus digital emulations.
maximumpower
... Is there some quality that those delays (Strymon Dig, TC Triple delay, etc...) get that is different from those reverb algorithms?
 
I realize a delay can do things beyond ambient sounds that a reverb can't do but I am asking just about the ambient sounds.
 
Thanks

 
If I understand your question correctly, there are a few things that come to mind.  With multiple delay lines, you have fine control over the individual 'reflections'.  Most likely, each one will have it's own feedback loop, EQ, inserted effects within the loops, modulation, etc.  A handful of delays - each set up uniquely - can create very complex results in short order.
 
There's also the possibility of sync among the individual delays ... lockstep, polyrhythms, or unsynchronized components.  Even though it's 'ambient', a rhythmic feel remains.  Reverbs might have sync-able pre-delay, but not as much control over individual reflections.  With multiple delay lines, you can craft your own 'reverb algorithm', and it doesn't have to be based on any real world model.
 
At least that's what I do with my delay pedals / rack (Eventide, Lexicon, etc.)  Multiple plugin instances can get similar results.  I happen to like the hands-on approach.  And reverb algorithms may also sneak into that stack, to one degree or another.
 
2015/08/24 14:30:51
tlw
B rock's excellent post has reminded me of something.

One thing that's very difficult to do is successfully run effects pedals in parallel into an amp. You get into all kinds of issues dealing with impedance mis-matches and shifts, gain at the front end of the parallel pedals that changed depending on what's upstream of them and phasing issues and volume (and hence amp response) as things are switched on or off. Dealing with this stuff is why you see someone like Andy Summers or Eric Johnson using big, complex stage rigs with multiple eveything.

None of those problems exist using either aux busses on a mixer, or, more practically, plugins. Steve Hillage is one of the best ambient/electronica guitarists around and when I saw System 7 last Easter there wasn't an amp in sight, just a couple of MacBooks.
2015/08/24 17:43:38
maximumpower
Thank you for the responses. I realize the question is pretty open ended.
 
For example, the Strymon Dig making ambient sounds:
 
https://youtu.be/RQ8Tonps78o?t=3m21s
 
In this example, I can hear individual delays at the beginning. 
 
I understand your point that you would have more control using serial delays over a dedicated reverb algorithm such as the Eventide Blackhole.
 
2015/08/25 14:48:41
rsinger
maximumpower
Is there some quality that those delays (Strymon Dig, TC Triple delay, etc...) get that is different from those reverb algorithms?



Listening to the Dig example I would repeat what b rock said "Even though it's 'ambient', a rhythmic feel remains". Dual delay lines have been popular in rack fx for quite a while and what was once in racks is now moving into pedals.
 
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