2012/04/23 06:45:27
fireberd
I ordered one from Amazon, as they have a very liberal return policy.  If it works as advertised, great! and I'll keep it.  If not it will go back to Amazon.  I need to replace a noisy LiteOn SATA drive anyway (it works, just noisy).
2012/04/26 18:28:17
fireberd
Well, Amazon was a bust.  I ordered the drive early Monday (4/23) morning and the status later that day was "Shipping Soon".  It never changed and there is no way that I found on Amazon to contact them about an order, so I cancelled it after 4 days of "shipping soon".   I ordered from www.newegg.com who I should have ordered from to start with (its where I buy a lot of computer parts) and I ordered it at 3 PM (Eastern) and by 5PM I had the UPS shipping info (tracking number).
2012/05/01 08:15:09
fireberd
The LG drive came in from newegg.com and installed.  It will burn at 8X, but not 4X as listed in their specs.  This is the ONLY SATA drive I've found that will burn at less than 16X. 

I use 8X as my audio CD burning "standard". 

The downside, the drive tray is flimsy and seems to be "cheap".  Who knows how long it will last.
2012/05/09 11:47:37
Cactus Music
I was unaware that we still had to burn at lower speeds these days. I use Nero and it is set to "determine max speed" I do get the occasional duds ( fail verification) in certain spindle packs. But never had complaints from clients regarding the CD's not playing. My understanding is if the burn passes verification, then it is a 100% clone of the wave files added. Verification does take extra time however, and so now you have me wondering if it would be faster to just burn slower and skip verification??
2012/06/05 14:30:59
Doumdoum
I also thought it wasn't necessary to burn at slower speed but some of my disks burned at MAX speed didn't play correctly on my portable CD player and in my car but when I burned them at 8x, they played OK.
2012/06/05 15:39:44
fireberd
It depends on the audio CD player.  If its a newer one that will also play RW discs, chances are it will play higher speed burned discs. 
But, when you are selling (or giving away) burned discs at concerts or wherever to the public you have no clue as to what it will be played on and to "CYA" burn them at the lower speed so they will play on most audio CD players.

Complaints of skipping or not playing are related to the burn speed. 

2012/06/05 17:29:09
slartabartfast
There is perhaps an over-emphasis on burn speed here. While it is the subject of a great deal of advice and speculation, any good quality scientific study of the issue seems to have been buried in the discussion, hidden as proprietary data by the disk or writer manufacturer's, or was never done in the first place. It does make good sense that a recordable CD with sufficiently sharp and deep pits (actually disturbance of the dye since recordable CD's do not have pressed pits buried in the medium) will have a better chance of playing on a wider variety of disk readers. That is, however an issue of burn quality, not burn speed per se. It is also an issue of player quality. There are older dedicated CD music players out there that will not play a recordable CD from any source, and tweaking burn speed will not make them do so.
 
The speed hypothesis is based on the idea, that a burn point on a rapidly moving disc is exposed to the laser for a lesser time, and that the power cycle of the laser has a significant ramp up/down time. The first should produce a less deep pit (intense disturbance), and the latter would result in a less distinct burn region. The loss of distinctness would be due to the rising edge of the laser power being spread over a larger linear path, producing a dye distubance density that is more like a sine wave than the desired square wave. If that were the only factor, there would seem to be no need for data.
 
Unforunately there are other factors that need to be considered, and the relative contribution of those factors to the problem turns a simple solution into an enigma. For one thing, the power cycle of the laser, and the total delivered power are factors. Burners designed for higher speeds have more powerful and faster responding lasers than the ones used in the older burners. Without knowing a great deal more about these devices than the manufacturer reveals, it is difficult to predict the extent to which underburn and indistinct problems will result from a particular speed. There is also the potential for over-burn if a too-powerful laser rests on a point for too long causing spread from the desired point into the surrounding medium--a puddle instead of a pit. In extreme cases this could cross the linear boundary into adjacent "grooves". A similar problem used to affect the cutting of grooves in masters for vinyl records. The "mastering engineer" was the guy with the experience and judgement to be able to control the amplitude of the signal (loudness at various frequencies) driving the device to prevent the cutting edge from gouging into the next track and ruining the master.
 
The sensitivity of the dye is perhaps the major factor. Blank CD's designed for high speed burning, should be optimized to respond to high speed burning. The dye may well be the most significant factor in determining if a less responsive CD player chokes. Certain dye "colors" have a bad reputation with dedicated CD players. It is not necessarily true that a CD that will not play in every reader has more "errors" than one that will. The reading laser may be respnding to frequency and reflectance as much as to the depth or distinctness of the burn.
 
This is not just a "quality" argument. A "high quality" CD from a respected manufacturer, may still be optimized (intentionally or not) to work at a specific speed, responding to a specific laser frequency, and burn duration. It is not immediatly obvious that burning such a CD on an older burner at a lower speed will produce fewer errors. The control firmware for the burner may also be a factor as it nominally controls the burn timing. So different burners using different lasters, firmware and media would be expected to produce different results.  In some cases the slowest available speed may at least theoretically not be the best.
 
Ideally, if you are doing production burning, you would test a variety of media and speeds for your equipment using software that can compare the read result to the intended written data. You would also test an impractically large number of players to see if your ideal media and speed combination approaced a universal compatibility. As time goes on, and the CD players are designed to accept a wider variety of media (and older players hit the landfill) this will probably be less of an issue. In the mean time, if you want to keep your customers happy, a liberal return policy might be the best solution.
 
2012/06/05 18:10:00
fireberd
I don't want P*ss*d off customers coming back complaining about my CD's.  I use ink jet printable Taiyo Yuden CD-R's (labeled "For Professional Use").  I've been selling my CD's since 1998 and have not had one complaint. 

I also burn audio CD's for others (I have a bank of 5 CD/DVD burners and can burn 5 discs at a time).  This past winter I burned a 100 disc order, an 80 disc order (with jewel case inserts) for a Canadian "snowbird" and severaI lesser orders.  I get repeat customers because there are no problems with mine but they have had problems with discs burned by others (including some commercial disc duplication services).
2012/06/07 11:31:14
Cactus Music
Excellent post David.
So many people just blindly use the "tools" and the "medium" with out even realizing what it is they are dealing with.
 Just the other day I had to run off a few disks and I was to lazy to go upstairs to the studio so I used our Office PC. I use Nero and I always ask for data verification and check the "let Nero determine speed" box. After 2 disks did not pass I gave up and resumed on my studio DAW computer without issue.
You should always take the time to run Data Verification if you are charging for the product. There's no need to test the CD. Data verification of properly mastered wave files should play on all machines that are up to it.
On the topic of older CD players, It was explained to me that they used to use weak lasers in the early days. The weak laser cannot penetrate the thick layer used on CDR's and especialy CDRW's.
 
 
And musicians can get ripped off by falling victim when they send there masters for replicating. There are a lot of companies offering very low price replicating and no one bothers to ask if these are pressed or burned CD's because most do not realize the difference. If it looks and sound like a CD, it must be a CD.
 
If you are a serious artist and wish to sell a top notch product, Then have your music properly mastered and "pressed" to a real CD. A burned CD is fine for those on a budget but it is not worth $20! I don't care how "nice" the label is.
 
A burned CD will always be sensitive to sunlight and is easily destroyed by scratches.
That said, I have found burning CD's from the studio to be slowly fading away.
I put everything on flash drives. Most musicians have one in their pocket. We had a band practice last night and everyone brought there flash drives. All go home with shared files to practice including band mates originals.
 
And then we post on the net where you can sell your music if you choose.
CD's are sort of -sell at concerts or let granny listen thing  now.     
 
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