You can get a decent, if not good sound from basic equipment like you have.  I imagine what is happening is that you are starting to notice the difference between your recordings and commercial stuff.  Most listeners can't tell the difference - they are listening to the song, not the recording.  If you play an A and B they can hear it - if they listen.  But for the most part they don't.  But when you start recording you do develop the ear, and you wonder why your recordings don't sound as "real" as they do in the room or as transparent as commercial recordings.

If you don't have cash to sling around (and who does?, except for the commercial places) continue to develop your ear and mic placement.  Finding the right place a few inches away can make more difference than a $10,000 mic in the wrong place.  That is why I suggested getting someone to help.

At some point you will hit a brick wall w/ what you have.  I remember getting a pair of high-end Crown PZMs.  Hardly the best mics for band stuff, but I hung one on my small (NYC) bedroom wall as a vocal booth.  Suddenly I could "hear' into the recorded sound much better than my old bottom shelf ATs.  Stereo drums suddenly sounded like the what was in the room, not the mics.  But it was only because of the years spent playing around before I understood the difference - and how to use it.

But every minute spent now will pay off.  Is paying off.  It still is w/ me, anyway.

@

Beepster


Hiya, Danny. I was hoping you'd pop in. The stuff I'm working on now is getting into my more political/controversial stuff so it probably won't be getting posted up here but maybe I'll put up something in the same vein except change the lyrics to be about bunnies and hippos frolicking in a field for everyones perusal. If all goes well though and I can stay focused this should lead to a full album for release. I may need a pro mixer's touch and some mastering if that ends up being the case. The vocals really are turning into my biggest problem right now. I'm quite out of practice I'm having a hard time opening up so maybe a bulk of my problems will fade once I get back into the swing of things. I desperately need a new mic too although I hear ya on making stuff work in post.

oops... phone call. BRB.

Well Beeps, maybe at some point you can share it with me/us. Sometimes it's an easy fix or just being taught how or what to listen for things. If all else fails, go buy an SM-58....that's pretty much a no fail mic no matter who uses it. :)
 
I wouldn't let the politics stop you...a song is a song/art, ya know? Just about my whole new album is political in nature. I can't help that I am very unhappy with how things are in America. I usually NEVER write about that stuff...but, it's my way to cry out without rioting or trying to start a revolution. LOL!
 
-Danny

Right on guys. I do get better as time wears on and with all the great help I get here (have I thanked you all lately? Because it's never enough so thanks). Like I said I'm getting pretty good results as it is but to me "pretty good" doesn't really cut it. I wanna blow peoples socks off, yanno? The more ideas I get here and there just gives me more freedom to experiment and approach things with a solid plan instead of muddling through things and hoping they'll turn out okay. Some of you have heard my early attempts which seemed to get some very positive feedback. All that was with absolutely no real knowledge. Things are turning out a lot nicer now after all the studying and paying attention to the folks here (if you think I post a lot you should see how many threads I read a day... lol. I'm relentless). I'll be trying out all the suggestions made so far and any others that follow this post. Also hoping the Groove 3 stuff will cement a solid procedural approach. I think it's good to chat about this stuff as it makes it a little more pleasurable than just having my nose stuck in the manuals and I like to think that other folks get something out of the threads I post. I seem to get a lot of the heavy hitters coming in to help which is absolutely awesome and is good for the forum in general I think. No squabbling, just pure beautiful knowledge. Keeps me going.

Anyway, thanks again guys for this and all the other times you've come to my rescue. I was gonna record another set of takes but I think I'm gonna try to apply some of the stuff mentioned here on what I already have. Might be better to experiment on rougher tracks to get a hang on fixing things in post so when I get my pipes really going again things will be that much better in the end.

And any other suggestions are welcome.

Cheers.

Everybody has given great advice. Like all advice when it comes techniques, your individual needs and your content will require some tweaking. Pop filters vary in quality but the need for the higher end ones vary with your singing/speaking style. My Blue Spark has a built in pop filter (that seems more for looks than anything) is only useful within a very narrow vocal proximity and completely useless for styles with high plosive content like rap. A $17 nady pop filter is not a bad investment for the price. Experiment with proximity. Some mics really love for the vocalist to be practically swallowing it. Others sound awful up close but warm and creamy if you give them a few extra inches. As far as politics, I don't think postings here are judged so much on content but more on technical merits for feedback. I get annoyed when someone turns a thread on compression into an "I hate Obama" or "I hate Rush Limbaugh" convo (even though given the demographics of this forum the former is more likely), but when you are posting YOUR song, the content is YOUR business and anybody who listens to a song called "Blow me Pelosi" and complains they are offended should know better than to even click that thread. I would suggest making it clear in the thread title that your song is political or controversial and a reasonable adult will have a choice.

also, good advice from Danny about mics. push comes to shove an sm58 or sm57 will work. A number of grammy winning artists have actually recorded with these mics.

@dubdisciple... Heh... my lyrics are a little more nuanced than all that but still, like to keep things more or less audio related while I'm here. I'm more a centrist screaming for sanity but considering how polarized society has become that tends to just piss EVERYONE off. lol

I do have some SM58s but they don't really cut it for what I want. That Shure C series I mentioned is actually better than the 58s I find but to get the crispness/clarity I'm looking for the condensers seem to be the easiest route. I tested all of them out last fall to see what did what and the Samsons were definitely the best. I was looking at an AKG (can remember the darned model number now) that was going for $100 last time I checked. It was a cheaper version of the mic Julibee said she uses and her recording sound fantastic IMO. The right amount of body and crispness so I'm hoping that'll help. Really any vocal dedicated condenser would be a step up from these cheapos I'm using now. They're meant as overheads and they didn't really work all that great for that either. They have weird kind off washed out, singing into a fan, almost digital quality about them. It's hard to describe but I really have to mess with the signal to get them sounding "normal".

Meh... I'm hoping something I'm working towards right now will free up a bit of cash but I won't know for another month or so. Then I'll be able to tuck away about $100 or so for equipment purchases. Financially I would have been better off in my old space but it was a nightmare and I didn't have enough room to get stuff done. 

Cheers, dude. Hope you've been well.

In my opinion, one of the most important aspects of a vocal mix, is the vocal level.  I always automate before going into a compressor.  Nothing spells out "bad mix" more than an uneven vocal, and a vocal that is not at the appropriate level, compared to the rest of the instruments. 

@Beepster..I was being silly with the song title and could never imagine you saying anything like that :) If you are looking to upgrade your current mic and don't have much cash, the blue mic I spoke of may be the best overall mic you will get for under $200. I just picked up the limited edition white one. As I mentioned, the pop filter is limited but is included as well as a shock mount. The version I got also included a matching xlr cable. I can't say enough good things about this mic considering the price. I am using it primarily for on location VO work, but it works well for singing and instruments. I started to get a sterling ST55 and seriuously considered Rode Nt1-a but after listening to all three, it was no contest imho.

I was mistaken about the mic I had been looking at. It's actually the AT 2020. Looks decent enough. If I get it through my usually retailer I might be able to return it if it turns out to be arse but really I just need something a little more transparent than what I've got. Sonar seems to be able to clean things up really well from there. I'm certainly not lacking in software solutions for this purpose. Just need to get that initial signal a little closer to reality. I really should break out my Mackie mixer to shape things a bit better on input as well. It's got some nice pres and having being able to EQ stuff a little before going in should help... I think.

One thing I'm not sure about... if I use the Mackie I could use the 1/4" direct line outs from the channel(s) I'm plugged into or use the XLR main outs which would allow me to take advantage of the Focusrite Pres as well. Not sure how using two sets of pres would work out though if at all. Don't wanna blow anything up.

some pros use handheld sm58's and 57's to record final vocals with.
but these were in pro studios, with pro engineers, using pro signal chains and pro ability.



if you cannot afford pro mics, then you can't afford them.
so don't worry about it, just go for the best performances you can get, and always keep your signal clean without clipping.


just don't think you can get pro sounds out of a consumer mic.

the performance is always more important than the sound, anyways.

always.


you should be able to get a good clear sound with a AT2020 (i have a AT4033 and love it)

good clean (conservative) levels, not too close to the mic, use pop filters, the eq to taste at mixdown.