• Techniques
  • Ping Pong Delay emulating analogue console.
2013/02/03 08:44:09
fitzj
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Protools Way. 
Create two mono bus channels Left Delay and Right Delay. 

Create 2 aux channels same name and pan 1 left and 1 right, outputs to bus left delay  
and aux 2 to bus right delay. 

Put a mono delay on aux left delay and a mono delay on the  right aux under inserts. 

On the vocal track insert a send and send it to delay Left on aux only. 


Then on the left delay channel send to Right Delay. 

Then on the right delay channel send  it back to the Left delay. 

Very nice effect as it can be further enhanced with eq etc. 

Now all this work to a certain point in sonar.  
I am  able to put an insert on the bus delay left and send to bus delay right, but I cannot send it back with an insert on bus delay right? 

What is the best way to implement this setup in Sonar x2. 


2013/02/03 08:51:57
gustabo
Why not use a stereo delay on a stereo bus and set up the delay as a ping-pong delay?
2013/02/03 09:20:03
fitzj
I don't think its the same effect you get as  setup the analogue way  which give you more control over the delay plus plus the effect you get? You get further and delays if setup correctly and tweaked with eq. Many professional use this technique.
2013/02/03 10:01:01
scook
Probably going to have to loopback through your audio interface to achieve the desired routing.
2013/02/03 11:01:04
fitzj
It can be done in protools with just two buses and two aux. No loopback through audio interface. You can see done on Groove3.com under protools tricks under ping pong effect. It should be possible in Sonar.
2013/02/03 11:09:41
Jeff M.
The Groove3 Mixing Rock vid explains/shows this method as well (in the beginning when he sets up his template busses).
 
2013/02/03 11:56:03
bitflipper
The method you describe is old school, dating back to a time when there was no other way to do it. Today, it's no longer necessary. A full-featured delay plugin can achieve almost exactly the same end with the simplicity of a single insert or buss effect. 

The bundled Sonitus Delay doesn't have as much versatility as the 2-bus-2-delay method, because you cannot effect the left and right delays independently. But it still does the job 99% of the time. For those rare occasions when it doesn't, you might consider something like the ridiculously-versatile Timeless2 from FabFilter. 

But if you really need to effect each delay channel separately, it can certainly be done with two busses and two delays. You'd use the plugins' internal feedback rather than routing to achieve the actual delays, though.


P.S. as for the suggestion that "many" professionals use the bus method, I doubt it. The statement may have been true 30 years ago, but I'd bet that the vast majority of pro mixers today would just stick in a delay plugin.
2013/02/03 12:38:48
digi2ns
Ya beet me to it Dave  LOL

This is beyond my knowledge but I did go down and try to figure it out in Sonar with Sonitus and thats what I came up with as far as the 2 buss 2 delay thing.

With my lack of knowledge on this process Im not sure if Im achieving the OPs desired outcome but it looks close.

I found you can route sends to sends or busses back and forth as long as its on the Buss side and not the track side of it,  but not sure
2013/02/03 14:21:54
Guitarhacker
I used to do things the hard way.... my wife says I still do.... but now, I prefer the easy route. 

Drop the plug in the project and move on to the next thing on the list.... 
2013/02/03 14:36:52
fitzj

This is my setup not sure if its correct way to do this using the buss method. I presume the internal Feedback is the Delay Feedback knob. 
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