Often, when getting in arguments over guns, the gun owners have a completely different lexicon that they use.  The words  mean something different to them, and we talk past eachother.  The gun (to gun owners) represents mastery (hegelian)  the ability to take another life that the slave will  never do.  Masters will also often argue (from hegel's point of view) that there's theology that supports their position.  It's a false theology though.  Only the slave retains spirit.  The master vacates his spirit when he kills.  It's a faustian type of proposition, but the master must live with his or her life choices.
 
OTOH who wants to be a slave?!

I'm not directing anything at anyone. I'm trying to stick to bare facts leave emotion out of it and disagree with ideas rather than people.

I too wish we lived in a world where no one harmed anyone. But we have to live in the world of what is, not the world of what if. Linear Phase is correct, we live in a world where we attempt to control all sorts of stuff, expending enormous resources on what amounts to tilting at windmills. I think without realizing it, he came to the same conclusion I did. Bad people will always be there to do bad tbings no matter what.

eph221
werds...

eph221
Often, when getting in arguments over guns, the gun owners have a completely different lexicon that they use.  The words  mean something different to them, and we talk past eachother.  The gun (to gun owners) represents mastery (hegelian)  the ability to take another life that the slave will  never do.  Masters will also often argue (from hegel's point of view) that there's theology that supports their position.  It's a false theology though.  Only the slave retains spirit.  The master vacates his spirit when he kills.  It's a faustian type of proposition, but the master must live with his or her life choices.
 
OTOH who wants to be a slave?!

That's a pretty twisted view of how most gun owners feel about their guns. It's true that they represent mastery, but it has nothing to do with the desire or power to kill anyone - it's about being in control of your own life without having to put it in the hands of the authorities. That's called self defense. Many people live in areas in which police response times are nowhere near fast enough in the event of an emergency. Maybe you live out in the sticks and it would take police half an hour to get there if you reported an intruder. Even here in New York, you're sometimes looking at a 5-10 minute response time from the NYPD depending on how busy they are elsewhere. These are crucial minutes in which having the ability to defend yourself against someone who might be armed or able to overpower you can mean the difference between life or death. 
 
I've put that argument to people in the past and they have responded with "well if you live in fear of someone breaking into your home and killing you then you're just being paranoid. It's very unlikely to happen." So is a house fire. The chance of your home catching fire is statistically minute, but that doesn't stop people from fitting smoke alarms "just in case." 
 
I have no idea why the word "slave" came into your argument, it seems a little pretentious and unnecessary. 

bdickens
 I think without realizing it, he came to the same conclusion I did. Bad people will always be there to do bad tbings no matter what.

No, I realize it.  I currently train Brazilian jiu jitsu.  In the past I've trained boxing, Muay Thai, Krav Maga, Judo, and Shorinjiryu
 
I've been doing one form or another form of martial arts since I was a kid.
 
My Father is a Vet, my Grandfather is a Vet.  My stepmother is an avid shooter of skeet.
 
Until age 15 I shot rifles very regularly..   at about 15 I was way more interested in girls and music.   I wouldn't pick up a gun again until about 5 years ago when I decided to and acquired a permit to carry.  
 
What I said earlier still stands.  I am not a fan of weapons.  I do believe in the 2nd Amendment.  I do believe in self defense.  

Bad people will always have guns.  Good people seldom have the means to defend themselves

bdickens

Recent events in the UK have them talking about acid control. They already have knife control. Where does it end? Do we end up tightly regulating, or even banning altogether, everything? Is that even possible?

Everything must go except Bacon and my tighty whitey's

craigb

bdickens
The idea of "weapons sold at flea markets" is a bald-faced lie. 

I know this comment was directed at Mosvalve, but I'm not sure what you're implying since guns ARE commonly sold at flea markets (a quick Google search will find several).  Maybe not in Texas? 

They are sold in flea markets in Pennsylvania and I'm sure other states as well.

Another tragedy and music fans are victims. Sorrow and anger

sharke

eph221
Often, when getting in arguments over guns, the gun owners have a completely different lexicon that they use.  The words  mean something different to them, and we talk past eachother.  The gun (to gun owners) represents mastery (hegelian)  the ability to take another life that the slave will  never do.  Masters will also often argue (from hegel's point of view) that there's theology that supports their position.  It's a false theology though.  Only the slave retains spirit.  The master vacates his spirit when he kills.  It's a faustian type of proposition, but the master must live with his or her life choices.
 
OTOH who wants to be a slave?!

That's a pretty twisted view of how most gun owners feel about their guns. It's true that they represent mastery, but it has nothing to do with the desire or power to kill anyone - it's about being in control of your own life without having to put it in the hands of the authorities. That's called self defense. Many people live in areas in which police response times are nowhere near fast enough in the event of an emergency. Maybe you live out in the sticks and it would take police half an hour to get there if you reported an intruder. Even here in New York, you're sometimes looking at a 5-10 minute response time from the NYPD depending on how busy they are elsewhere. These are crucial minutes in which having the ability to defend yourself against someone who might be armed or able to overpower you can mean the difference between life or death. 
 
I've put that argument to people in the past and they have responded with "well if you live in fear of someone breaking into your home and killing you then you're just being paranoid. It's very unlikely to happen." So is a house fire. The chance of your home catching fire is statistically minute, but that doesn't stop people from fitting smoke alarms "just in case." 
 
I have no idea why the word "slave" came into your argument, it seems a little pretentious and unnecessary. 

 
It's the master slave dialect.  It's been a part of the equation for about 200 years. I'm surprised you haven't heard it.  I just talked past you. And the 2nd amendment barking is based in paranoia, not reasonabley premiced.  These are just facts we talk past each other (the pros and cons)  the barking needs to stop before we get anywhere..

eph221
And the 2nd amendment barking is based in paranoia, not reasonabley premiced.  These are just facts we talk past each other (the pros and cons)  the barking needs to stop before we get anywhere..

An interesting idea for you might actually be to, "get a fact."   Provide actual facts or evidence to back up your words.  You have no facts.  You have no evidence.  You have no logical arguments.   Essentially, "you are a Huffington Post."