Everything I've said so far in this thread is perfectly obvious to me and my friends so there! We all have had personal experiences I'm sure. We're just talking past each other. I'm done with the dogs. B-bye .

eph221
 
 
It's the master slave dialect.  It's been a part of the equation for about 200 years. I'm surprised you haven't heard it.  I just talked past you. And the 2nd amendment barking is based in paranoia, not reasonabley premiced.  These are just facts we talk past each other (the pros and cons)  the barking needs to stop before we get anywhere..

 
If by "talking past me" you mean dressing your speech in pseudo-intellectual ornaments which aren't relevant to the issue, then I totally agree!

bdickens
What flea markets are guns sold at? Which ones? You mean that there are FFL dealers at flea markets? 
That is just another version of the "unlicensed dealers at gun shows" canard. Perhaps you have some information the ATF might find interesting. 

Well, if you have never seen a gun sold at a flea market you may not be going to the right flea markets. While a licensed dealer may legally sell in a non-permanent venue such as a gun show or flea market stall, there is nothing to prevent someone who is not primarily engaged in selling firearms for a living from doing so without a license. So a booth full of new weapons purchased at wholesale and offered at a profit would certainly be of interest to the ATF if they had nothing better to do with their resources, a couple of used guns would likely not get their attention. 
 
From the ATF Licensing information:
Under federal law, conducting business “with the principal objective of livelihood
and profit” means that “the intent underlying the sale or disposition of firearms is
predominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary gain, as opposed to other
intents, such as improving or liquidating a personal firearms collection.”
Consistent with this approach, federal law explicitly exempts persons “who make
occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a
personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection
of firearms.
 
There is little evidence to indicate that distributing massive numbers of guns even through fully licensed dealers is any guarantee that they will not be diverted, if for no other reason that once legally sold to an individual the system for following subsequent sales is essentially nonexistent. You cannot sell your personal car without filing a change of title, but I am not aware of any such requirement with your personal guns. Persons who amass an armory full of weapons believing that they will safeguard their collection to keep it out of the hands of less reliable defenders of the weak usually do not consider the possibility that they themselves may become deranged or demented, or lose control of the weapons through burglary, bankruptcy or death. 
 

The ATF has never been shy about going after low hanging fruit.

.
 

Good question jbow!
Rain let us know you and the Misses are OK

Some may remember why I quit doing gigs in new orleans a few years ago. When that guy walked up to my car while I loaded up my equipment and said get down on the ground I have no doubt after getting what he wanted I would have been shot in the head without a second thought. It didn’t happen that way

I love a good debate as much as anyone, but to my surprise I find myself agreeing with every position posited so far in this thread. Event the tasteless Bangles reference. There are many ways to view this situation as we all desperately try to make some kind of sense out of it.
 
Sense will elude us, though, because no proposed preventative measures would have prevented this tragedy.  The guy had given no indication that he was crazy, he just snapped like Michael Douglass' character in Falling Down. The guns were legally purchased (even if he'd made illegal modifications to them). He wasn't a member of any extremist group. He was a wealthy man quietly living in a quiet small town suburb.
 
What will happen is investigators will find out the shooter was taking vitamin D supplements, and that will become the official explanation and then we'll all feel better.
 
The real question is: why weren't these things happening 50 years ago? What changed in us? 
 
 

You can't really have a proper debate on guns in America when you can't acknowledge the function of the US second amendment as it relates to government structure.  That's totally politics, and can't do that here.  It's like debating the value of orchestra in rock music with a TOS against wind instrument commentary. 
 
It's central to why we have so many guns here and so many gun deaths, and we put up with it as a consequence of our chosen system to retain individual sovereignty while being a self governed society, with no rulers or fair masters. 
 
Every choice has consequences, no matter what side of the issue you are on.  It's that way with all things, really.  And we all know this.  But..we argue and debate as if there are perfect choices that will solve every consequence.  
 
That's about as far as I can go with that...and I'll bet I still stepped over the line.  My apologies, in advance.  
 

bayoubill
Some may remember why I quit doing gigs in new orleans a few years ago. When that guy walked up to my car while I loaded up my equipment and said get down on the ground I have no doubt after getting what he wanted I would have been shot in the head without a second thought. It didn’t happen that way

Well I'm a new feller and I have never heard this story...got my curiosity going.  Care to share, again?  
 

bitflipper
 
The real question is: why weren't these things happening 50 years ago? What changed in us? 
 
 

 
Keep in mind the changes in media and social jurisdiction.  Gun ownership has increased by at least 56% since 1993, while the homicide rate has decreased by 49% in that same period.  Not implying causation at all, rather pointing out that we perceive an increase in gun horror because our world has become smaller and smaller as media and technology link us to everyone at every position on the earth, and every event that happens on it.  That has to effect our perception of things.  
 
Humans are evolving to be less violent.  We are progressing, but we're too busy judging how perfect we aren't to appreciate how we've come along.  A lot of complaining in the news daily, no real perspective.  

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