Mike the reason it can be hard and especially hard in this arena is
that to much information and many ways of looking at all of it can just
be a mess to sort out.

Should you feel that theory is something you want to know...I gave you my best advise.

The reason I'm posting is to mention something completely different.

"Mocking".  No theory. IMO mocking may have a greater value to a musician than all the
theoritical information.
Not unlike a child learning to talk one can learn how to express themself by mocking.

It stands to reason and very easy to imagine that if one can play what they hear others
play then one may have an easy time playing what they hear "in their head".

I have mentioned this before. I've mentioned that I don't understand why guitarist need
tuners rather than just a starting, reference pitch. It is nothing but a sign that listening...really listening is something that they need to improve. I work on it myself.
I realize that I didn't learn by mocking and so I try to shut-off theory and mock.

It's easy for one to know where they stand. Take a short "lick" from a tune....hear it, then
play it. If you can't....does one think knowing theory will help?

Take note....that is not mocking as much as it is playing by ear. You know....what people say to explain why theory is of no value or that they have no formal musical education.
I don't debate what may be good or not for another.

Mocking is a way of a teacher "feeding" sounds in an organized way so the student
retains and builds.

How can one work with another to determine the value that mocking may have to them?
I have a good understanding of theory and grew up learing songs like most. ( before transciptions and internet were common) So both, playing by ear or reading and determining theoritical explainations is just part of it.
I am the type, as many here are, that could teach a student by mocking. I could determine
how to "feed" and how much to "feed" to expand the students hearing.

So if you know somebody that you think can understand "mocking" or already does...
sure a great way to improve your skills.
I don't think working alone could work LOL....Mocking ones self just doesn't even sound right.
 
 
Oh....yes, I did include "mocking" with my students. It added great fun and seem to loosen up and
relax most. Like a game.

I think I need a tuner for 2 reasons.

1) I shot over 30,000 rounds of ammunition in target practice settings by the time I was 10 years old. No hearing protection. I don't really like guns, but I am a well practiced marksman. Thanks Dad!

2) My attention span isn't all that long.

Both of those reasons may be total excuse making but for me, electronic tuners have been a blessing... one that enabled me to get started back when I wasn't able to do it by myself.


With regards to mocking... yes, when you mentioned that term a while ago the idea resonated with me and I realized that this is what I do. 

I play like a mockingbird... which is probably related to the fact that I sang with confidence well before I played any instrument.




With regards to learning theory. I don't doubt that your advice is the best course of action.

I did take that year of theory in school, I got the A's and I didn't really retain any actual understanding.

I have never found the right person to help me apply the knowledge.

I have been able to find effective teachers for electronics and such... but not music theory.

I've been working at this for long time... trying to reconcile my playing with theory.

I can live without the knowledge, because I can mock ok, but there are times when I'd like to learn a few things as it applies to what I am hearing.

It seems like a learn a little bit each time I dare to ask a question. :-)


Thank You!


best regards,
mike

I have been a bit distracted with the tennis of late. I am a fan and it is all happening in my part of the world right now. Very exciting here!

Thanks Mike I greatly appreciate you think I am one of those who is trying to help!  

My comments about key centres were general in nature and not necessarily applying to the music that Mike has put up. I have had a look though and from a key centre perspective here are some thoughts on that piece.

Firstly I think it is in G Major for sure but parts of it are modulating into E minor (the relative minor) It is not a Jazzy tune by any standards, the chords are triadic.

The first three bars are essentially in G Major (except yes the second G Minor chord could be considered modulating into G Minor just for that bar eg the I chord of G minor, I don't agree with Rus in that G Min is from D Minor, that is over complicating it) 

Bars 4,5 and 6 could be considered in E minor now. That explains the B Major chord and the D# dim chord. (the V chord and VII chord but only from Harmonic and Melodic not Natural minor)

Back into G Major up to perhaps bars 12 and 13 which could be thought of as E minor again. Then it looks like it is in G for the rest. It depends on the melody notes against the chords because if the melody is spelling out a minor tonality then we are in E minor rather than G Major. G Major is also the III chord of E Minor (harmonic and natural mainly, it is G Aug in the melodic minor)

Just some ideas. It is quite straight forward when you look at it from a key centre point of view.  It is modulating a bit here and there and would not be a great piece from a theory point of view to begin with.

The reason why I think Mike likes the D Major scale tones is because most of them will fit over the key of G Major (except C# in terms of G that is) and also if you look at the E minor scale tones you will see that most from the Natural minor is also a good fit except C (only in terms of D that is but good for G. Even C# sounds good because it is the natural 6th which also sounds good over E minor). You could also look at it as Mike is playing the 7th mode from the E natural minor scale. 

Jeff Evans

The reason why I think Mike likes the D Major scale tones is because most of them will fit over the key of G Major (except C# in terms of G that is) and also if you look at the E minor scale tones you will see that most from the Natural minor is also a good fit except C (only in terms of D that is but good for G. Even C# sounds good because it is the natural 6th which also sounds good over E minor). You could also look at it as Mike is playing the 7th mode from the E natural minor scale. 

This is true, but you can say that for any and all keys.


Why does the D Major scale fit so well in the key of G? The same reason, E does in the key of B. There's this thing called the tetrachord and two of them make up the major scale.


C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C and split it in half. C-D-E-F is tetrachord one and G-A-B-C is tetrachord two. As you can see, the second tetrachord in C is the first one in G. All the other major scales work like this, too.


The first note in the second tetrachord is a P5 above or P4 below the first note of the first tetrachord. IOW, this shows the Circle of Fifths/Fourths in a linear fashion, but also shows you how keys/scales relate to each other.

Thank you both.

So much to learn.


:-)


I'll keep at it and think about the different perspectives as I play through the song.
I've been rehearsing the vocal melody and I'm close to a good vocal take... when I get back to playing instruments on the song I look forward to applying some of the insights shared here.