i miced for about 34 years.....

and moved to the palmer after figuring out just about everything i ever wanted to know about micing guitar cabs.

i can get edgy tones with that thing, i cannot get from a mic.

but, in doing so, you lose the room effect.
so i incorporate many varieties of 'micing' to add into the sonic stew


dont disregard this info, might be your missing link.
it was for me.

Bats, you've mentioned it a few times and you got me curious about those little Palmer box. 
I'm putting one on my "wishlist".

Once you establish a good sound at ear level, the next thing to listen for is how much bass you probably added to the sound. When it's at your knees, it sounds like you have more bass in the tone than you really have. When it's at ear level, you may think you need to crank up the bass even more because now the cab has a thin, trebly sound. Don't fall into the bass trap! Guitars need less bass than people think. The same with bass guitar....if you can feel bass, you're using too much. The object is to HEAR the bass in your tone to where it rounds things out.  

Danny Danzi

I grew up with this defect! When I was in high school, I was always trying to get guitars to sound bassier. The first time someone showed me the riff to Black Dog, I said, "No way...that can't be right. It's too high."

batsbrew


you can hear the palmer in action in the songs forum right now.....

You can hear my "palmer" action in the songs forum right now too? Similar but slightly different. 


Looks like a fun addition to my GAS lust for not too much, thanks Bats.

The best bet is to set up a number of mics in various positions and distances and the experiment a bit. Every recording environment presents a different acoustical profile and no two situations are the same. The SM-57s are pretty much are standard, but if you are going to be cranking it up, it doesn't make sense to use use high end mics unless you already have them and possibly want to destroy them. Also, if you have Celestions in the amp it makes little difference because they are going to sound like crap no matter what. The line out boxes will give you your preamp sound but you lose the tonal dynamics of the speakers. If you use attenuators or power soaks, you also lose a bit of the tonal dynamics of the speaker cone stress of high volumes. The bottom line is try a few different things and see what sounds good to you.

Also, if you have Celestions in the amp it makes little difference because they are going to sound like crap no matter what.

 
Ever try the 25 watt Greenbacks, Pete? They're the only ones I like from Celestion. All the others....30's, 75's...etc...totally agree, all sound like crap and need lots of tweaking and mic positioning and even there, sometimes they are impossible to get right. But I've never had a problem with the 25's....I've been using them religiously for years. Worth trying if you've never used them before, honest. Way different timbre than the others. It's actually hard to believe they come from the same company. They break up really nice too without loads of pre-amp gain needed which is also kinda nice for rock/metal.
 
-Danny

mike_mccue


One thing I've been finding with the Royers and AEAs is that I can push the highs with a shelf... using something as simple as Sonnitus... and the highs sound incredibly smooth and silky.

It's like having a hardware pultec kinda vibe baked into the signal. At first, someone may not hear it or go looking for it yet when I have needed to push the high shelf I have been surprised to find out how far I can push it as it just seems to sound really good. 

Sometimes I plan on doing it because you can end up with a nice sound.

I'd never push a condenser that hard, primarily because they already have a lot of presence but also because the hi frequency sound isn't as smooth and silky. There's just more of it.


Someday I want grab a pair of the Beyer Dynamic M160s to mix it up a bit.


best regards,
mike

Yeah, and that's the good thing about them. With most other mic's, you have to take the highs out. These add in some nice warmth. When you use a 421 or a 57 along with them, the "entity" sound is really nice and gives you loads of options. But that's one thing with those Royers...you can literally push highs and not get that abrasive rasp you get with 57's.
 
-Danny

Wow. Lots of great info here. Especially liked the tip about backing the mic off a few inches to warm the sound. I will have to try each speaker to see if there is a difference. Had never considered that before. 
I've never been real happy with my guitar sound. Different pedal, amps, just can't seem to get something out of the amp that I hear in my head. Guess that is why I never spent a lot of effort with mic technique.
I do have my amp on an angled amp stand so it is up off the floor.

Danny you mentioned about those 2 different macs complimenting each other so well. I read something yesterday about that same concept only with the sm57 and the audix i5.  Read (price range).. Ha

Enjoying all the tips and info. Thanks to all.

Rain


Bats, you've mentioned it a few times and you got me curious about those little Palmer box. 
I'm putting one on my "wishlist".

+1

dxp


Wow. Lots of great info here. Especially liked the tip about backing the mic off a few inches to warm the sound. I will have to try each speaker to see if there is a difference. Had never considered that before. 
I've never been real happy with my guitar sound. Different pedal, amps, just can't seem to get something out of the amp that I hear in my head. Guess that is why I never spent a lot of effort with mic technique.
I do have my amp on an angled amp stand so it is up off the floor.

Danny you mentioned about those 2 different macs complimenting each other so well. I read something yesterday about that same concept only with the sm57 and the audix i5.  Read (price range).. Ha

Enjoying all the tips and info. Thanks to all.

You definitely need to be happy with your sound before you try and record it....that's for sure. If you're not down with your tone before you record, you'll REALLY hate it once you do because digital is pretty unforgiving on bad tones. With analog and tape, sometimes sounds that weren't so good morphed into something cool due to the tape saturation. The harsh highs wouldn't be there which is why some analog guys hate digital. What they fail to realize is, digital is giving you back exactly what you put into it without coloration.
 
So when a person isn't down with their tone, chances are they'll hate it ten-fold once it's recorded. LOL! Yeah, you definitely want to experiment with what speaker may be your sweet one. There's usually one or two that just have a sound that the others do not. Yet, all of them together make up the sound....if you like your sound. :)
 
Yeah, you can experiment with different mic combinations to see what works for you. That's the cool thing about this...what you think may not work, sometimes works quite well. I remember one time....I had this bogus Radio Shack mic. A real piece of....work. LOL! But for some odd reason (I still have it around here somewhere, I need to dig it out lol) this thing captured any tone that went through it just like standing in the room listening to an amp. And that's exactly how I'd set it up. I'd walk around the room listening to an amp until I found myself standing in a sweet spot. I'd put the mic there and make it even with my ears at about 2-3 feet away...and the darned thing sounded exactly like the amp. Weird looking mic too.
 
I bought it for speaking at some community center when they told me they didn't have a mic but had a pa. I left the mic with them and low and behold, the place closed, someone called me and said "so and so said this mic we have here is yours". I said "I gave that to the guy that ran the place" and they said "yeah, and he said now that we're closing, that it's only fair you get it back". LOL! So, I took it back and just happened to try it one day and was pretty impressed. :) So you never know what you may end up using, combining or trying....sometimes what you think will be a horrible choice, turns out to be a good one. :) Go into it without any rules and you wind up coming up with your own little secrets that work wonders. Good luck! :)
 
-Danny