sharke


Might find some useful info here:

http://www.badmuckingfast.../sound/slipperman.html

There is, indeed. 


The signal to noise ratio is pretty awful, though. Not that obscenities and curse words bother me all that much, but, a few paragraphs and all I feel like doing is smack him in the back of the head so that he'll cut to the chase and give us a break w/ the attitude. He seems like a knowledgable guy, but what a frickin' poseur...


Thanks though. I'll try to skim through.

For metal drum ref cds, you can't go wrong with Andy Sneap stuff.
Start with Arch Enemy's Doomsday Machine and Anthems of Rebellion (you ~did~ mention female vox...)


For hard rock bass, that's a 1-stop shop: Queensryche's Operation Mindcrime.


 

I know what you mean about revisiting old records with the enlightened ear of a serious listener - which none of us had in our younger days. Playing some old Sabbath the other day, it sounded like it was recorded in someone's living room through a pillow.

I'd say if you're working on something along the lines of Nightwish, then you may as well reference Nightwish. They are, after all, the gold standard of the genre and have a broad appeal outside of Scandinavia. A lot of it is way too dense for my taste, but still remarkable for how each element is audible no matter how compressed and dense the mix.

The band is actually more diverse than you might think. Listen to a song like "Away", which could have been a theme from a Disney movie, juxtaposed with "7 Days to the Wolves" or "10th Man Down". The latter two are amazing studies in cramming everything but the kitchen sink into a song while still maintaining clarity. The kick is fat and full, not resorting to the clicky beater effect heard in most metal songs - gating! 

Hi Rain,

This is such a huge subject, I really don't know where to begin. However, if you gave me a piece of something you've done while giving me another example of what you would like it to sound like, I can usually nail things close enough to where they'd be acceptable.

My current favorite modern sounding bands will probably not be to your liking and they don't sport a female singer. However, I DO feel they are incredible as far as production in a modern metal type of way. It's not neo classical or anything like that or like Nightwish, but honest when I tell you, I'd definitely take some notes on the production for this stuff because it's pretty intense and they do it right in my opinion.

First, anything Evanescence in my opinion. The chick just rips and the band is modern sounding with a metal background. Not quite as progressive as you may want, but production to die for.

Next, Mike Portnoy from Dream Theater's new band Adrenaline Mob. Some really great metal sounds made for today's times that I've actually gotten myself from listening to this stuff. Killer video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJkIy1IqBGc

Next is a band that did a Tommy Lee cover that I feel smokes the original. Very modern, yet with a hint of 70's done just perfect in my opinion. Production is killer considering it is kinda stripped down and not loaded with anything other than a few guitar layers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxnBfOig7Xo

This is just a super loaded question to be honest. Your bass sound in my opinion, depends on your kick drum...or vice versa. For me, if I use a clicky beater type kick, my bass can have more low end in it. If I use a kick with more thud, I can use a bass with more bass clack/percussive attack in it. Another thing to keep in mind is dropped tunings. When in drop tuning mode, you then have to rely a bit more on frequency selection that corresponds with the tuning you use and the notes you play...especially if you are tuned really low.

Wish I could help you more....and I can, I just need more info and actual examples in order to point you in the right direction.

-Danny

Do you guys have any recent reference record in the "classically influenced metal w/ female vocalists"

'Evanescence' maybe? Perhaps more rock than metal, but they have some huge productions http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YxaaGgTQYM

Danny is right: that Adrenaline Mob track has a nice round bass sound that doesn't sound obviously scooped or processed to fit into a small slice of the spectrum. Though the guitars at times do sound like they are direct from the late 80s, especially during the solos. 

However, the bass so dominates that Drills tune that I found it distracting.

My God, I'm getting old.  I don't know any of these bands.  LOL 

Rain

sharke


Might find some useful info here:

http://www.badmuckingfast.../sound/slipperman.html

There is, indeed. 


The signal to noise ratio is pretty awful, though. Not that obscenities and curse words bother me all that much, but, a few paragraphs and all I feel like doing is smack him in the back of the head so that he'll cut to the chase and give us a break w/ the attitude. He seems like a knowledgable guy, but what a frickin' poseur...


Thanks though. I'll try to skim through.

Exactly my thoughts. The guy seems to be determined to limit his audience, and his writing style is a pain to read, but there's loads of snippets of advice in there. He could have said the same thing in maybe a quarter of the words, but there you go!

Slipperman has got to be the most quotable mix guru this side of Mixerman. Yes, it's like listening to an arrogant, foul-mouthed 10-year-old on meth, but he has a way of cutting through the mystical mojo crap to get to the real principles. 

A favorite snippit of Slipperman advice: "Don't scoop the low mid, make it your bi tch!"

Also, if you haven't heard his podcasts, go over to The Womb and check them out.


[EDIT: the censorship of this forum makes it dang near impossible to quote Slipperman]

Man, I love this place! :)

I'll probably take an hour or two to shop for new music today, following you guys' recommendations. 

In fact, the more I think of it, I guess the "female vocalist" part is totally secondary for the moment - no vocals have been cut, I usually just record an instrumental demo and give my wife a chart w/ a very basic roadmap of where the melody could go, something to work around. Sort of "join the dots".

At the same time, I use those demos as a learning tool for me to figure out how to make it all work mix-wise, which in turns, affects the way I record and arrange to an extent.

I've avoided Nightwish for a couple of reasons - one being that I tend to absorb new influences in a blink - which is cool when you have to write jingles "in the style of x", but no so much when I'm working on my own stuff. So I'm making an effort to avoid any subconscious reference to them.

The comparison has always plagued my wife's ex-band, even if if people recognized that they were different. It's a territory where you'll always be judged against Nightwish as a reference. 

Funny thing is that my wife actually came this close to singing for them when the first singer quit. But the guys thought she might be a bit unstable or want to settle down and make babies, and jeopardize the band's future. So they hired Anette instead...  

To this day, I still don't really know what they sound like, except for the material my wife has recorded w/ them. And I've tried to keep it that way. But I'm guessing that what I'm woking on is probably a bit more "pop" - no intricate song structure. The classical influences is in the chord changes and voicings and melodies...

Danny, I may take you up on that offer. I know you offer consultation services, I'm just trying to figure out how early in the process is too early to ask for guidance. We're far from the actual mixing stage, but as I said, this doubles as a learning process for me.

Incidentally, the one song I'm working on does indeed rely on drop tuning. Just drop D, but I'm guessing that it still has an impact.