No problem Rain....don't worry about any consultation charges right now. I do my best to never charge anyone a dime unless it's something that intails totally ripping a mix apart instrument at a time while giving advice on what to do. We don't need to go there for this and I surely don't mind giving your stuff a listen and giving you some guidelines on where to start to get what you're looking for. Sometimes it's a mix thing...other times you may need to grab some samples or maybe a few new VSTi's.

As for the tuning, yeah it definitely plays a role in how the mix sounds when you control the frequencies within your tuning as well as your note choice. There's this really cool plug out that handles this stuff really well automatically. I was working in a studio I work at once per month in Philly and they had it there. It's called Surfereq. It literally changes eq curves in real time to your instrument tuning and note selection. I never used anything quite like it. But in certain situations (it's definitely not something you want to use all the time) it's a gem of a plug. I've been meaning to go buy it, I just haven't had the time. For insane dropped tunings like low B or even low A, this thing can work wonders on bass and guitars. Worth having in your tool box, that's for sure. Check it out: http://www.soundradix.com/products/surfer-eq

-Danny

Thanks, Danny - I really appreciate. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again for the suggestions guys, I'm browsing through that stuff.

Also - that Slipperman thing... I don't know whether the man himself toned it down a notch or if I got used to it, but I actually enjoyed the rest of it. And the man definitely knows his stuff.

So thanks again Sharke for posting that link. 

Man, Adrenaline Mob ROCKS! :P The singer kinda reminds me of a mix between Chris Cornell and Ronnie James Dio. 

I've only checked them out on iTunes so far, so maybe I get the wrong impression, but it seems pretty heavily compressed/limited (though certainly not as bad as some of the stuff I mentioned). Though the mix itself is interesting - certainly gives me a cue as to where to push the bass and keep it very upfront.

Am I living in the past and/or is this pretty much standard?

From what I gather, you're after an extreme-metal atmosphere, with a pop vibe and female vocals? You could possibly try Addicted by The Devin Townsend Project, in order to not get bogged down with the (in my opinion, terribly clichéd and boring) Nightwish stuff. If you're looking for Nightwish analogies, there's a whole number of bands such as Within Temptation, Leaves' Eyes, Epica...

I love both Necrophagist and Nile but, the latest Nile album is definitely not a good reference point (production-wise or otherwise) so you should go more for the previous album, Those Whom the Gods Detest. Necrophagist on the other hand haven't done anything since 2004, although their sound on that album is extremely modern. If you're going to choose such extreme metal as references though, I would definitely go for Agony by Fleshgod Apocalypse (classically influenced brutal technical death metal) or Entity by Origin (brutal technical death metal); both insanely well produced (and played!!!).

In my experience Rain, yeah, what you're hearing with AD is pretty much standard in today's metal, alt rock, nu-breed metal. In some instances, you may have a clickier kick drum and maybe even more low end. Ever hear of Sixx A.M.? That's Nikki Sixx's band from Motley Crue...and they are definitely worth a listen. But you'll hear the same thing pretty much.

In my opinion, with the way some of these bands are writing, I see no problems with being heavily compressed and limited. Here's why...if a song doesn't breathe anyway and they are looking for attitude, I say crush it as long as you don't get instrumente suffering. For example, a lot of audio guys that are against the volume wars (which I am too believe it or not) start crying when something is loud. I've never been in that camp totally. My issue is people making EVERY style of music that loud while losing instruments and dynamics.

If you listen to that AD song, nothing is missing. The snare is not choked off or losing its crack...you don't hear pumping and breathing, you don't hear artifacts such as pops or clicks or distortion and most of all, you are not hearing what I like to call "stereo smearing". When you make something that loud, it tends to smear and you lose some stereo field. If you're not careful, you can lose a lot of stereo field.

One might think "ah just put a stereo enhancement plug on or use a mid-side stereo plug" right? Well it's not as easy as that when you are going for what I like to call "aggressive and loud, yet acceptable". Lots of things come into play when you make things that loud...but two things you definitely don't want are artifacts and stereo smearing.

So I personally have accepted this style of mixing and mastering when it's done as good as AD did it. I wouldn't care if the wave file was a complete square box...that stuff sounds killer and is clear as a bell on all counts.

Yes, bass is making a come-back in today's music as far as how audible it is. The reason for this is, drums are not using subs to push the kick drum like in the 90's and early 2000's. The roles are reversing. Bass guitar is controlling all the sub low areas which allows the bass to be more present and in your face while the kick drums are appearing at 80-100 Hz for their "meat push" as I like to call it. Before, it was the other way around. Kicks were more 50-60 for thump (which is still used, but a bit more sparringly) and bass was 70-90 Hz for the meat push.

What they do now is run a dual feed on the bass and run a little over-drive. (which I hate, but I guess it works for this style) The clean bass may end up in the 40-60 Hz range and the dirty one will have harmonics of 70-80 Hz going on....OR....they flip flop that so the dirty has some sub low hamonics going on that are not forceful, but are there to reinforce what's going on. A little drive sizzle and some sub low moderately mixed in can do some pretty neat things to a bass guitar....even if guys like you and I may not like that sort of thing.

So yeah man, things have definitely changed a bit. One of the reasons I shared that Drills song with you was because I felt it had a classic rock vibe going on using today's technics. It's got that "today sound" but it definitely sounds a bit classic as well because it's not totally sonic and loaded with massive over-dubs and production...though it is, well produced in my opinion.

So to answer your question, I'd not say you're living in the past totally....we just have to get you up to snuff with some of the things they are doing today. They pretty much (imho) have just found ways to allow instrumentation to shine in spite of being heavily processed while making it loud. That's quite an accomplishment if you think about it because anyone that has ever experimented with making things super loud....knows about what can happen when you go down this road. To maintain that amount of clarity and attitude is well....perfectly fitting for the genre in my opinion. So in cases like this, I have no problems accepting the loudness. But if The Black Crows or some other dynamic band came out with something like that....I'd cringe. It depends on the amount of attitude within the song as well as what the band wants to represent really.

Each era has it's own things that enhance music. Sometimes it enhances, other times it depreciates. In the 80's we had arena drums with badly sampled kits of one instrument sound due to the technology not quite being there yet, over use of reverb and lots of other things that people complained about. We'll get something like this all the time every few years or when we look back in time. That said, the loudness war thing is at least 100% more clear when bands do it. I just think they have to be selective on who gets that sort of treatment while asking if the songs merit that type of processing.

-Danny

Mike, thanks for the suggestions, I'll check those out. :)

Danny - listening to it a few more times, I totally agree. It works for that type of music. My initial reaction was one of surprise, I guess. Like, wow man, that's frickin' LOUD. I guess I needed some time to dissect it a bit. It's like I'm always trying to figure out the mix underneath and to find my way in to see how things work.

First thing I had to admit to myself - I can't possibly get anywhere near this w/o the addition of a sub to my set up. I love my little Mackies, but I can't really take any informed decision for what's down there, short of what, the safest option is hi pass-ing. Worked fine for classic rock, but I guess it isn't the case anymore... As a rule of thumb, anything lower than, say 70 (maybe even 80) is already a tough call currently. Even all the way to 100-120, I tend to be über careful - I just don't trust what I'm hearing, not in this room, even if I work at low volume.

And second - ARC could be my next best friend in the near future. Man, I can't wait to move into our house!

I guess this could be part of the reason why I struggle w/ bass so much. I only have a restricted bandwidth that I can push it into - and when it gets to, I don't know, between 120 and 200, there's something I just dislike which makes me want to reach out and dip it all out. Though if I do that, there's not much left and the mix falls apart. 

Anyway, thanks again for all the info, man. I really appreciate.

You know what? The more I think about it, the more it seems to make sense and even explain some issues I'm having w/ guitars.

Every time I'm trying to mix some of that stuff, I hit what I call my "Master of Puppets" moment, where the guitars sound so dense (but not in a good way) and rigid. At first I thought - that's the old newbie mistake, I've recorded w/ way too much gain. But even after I went back and turned down the distortion by as much as 3 or 4, results don't change much.

And where do you move when you're stuck w/ that "Master of Puppets" sound but you want huge guitars? Of course, you cut the bass out of the mix, scoop those mids and push the low mids. That's the "And Justice for All" moment. It doesn't sound good either.

At which time you find yourself wondering if you shouldn't forget about properly mixing the darn thing and just St.Anger it.

But that wouldn't be as much fun now, would it?

Ha Danny, you need to write a freaking book man. Something like Mike Senior's "Mixing Secrets" but aimed primarily at rock. It would sell.