I'm pretty sure I could make more money selling my music equipment than I ever will by selling my music.
And it's cheap gear.

The best way is to sell something to the people that want to make money with music.

offnote


Just wonder what technnique, strategy have you used before you've become rich and famous?

I let an Indy record label do all the work for me. The album sold fairly well which set up my second album which also did fairly well. From that, I made amazing contacts within the industry to where my studio has prospered because of it.
 
I've had 2 worldwide releases. When you can get into major stores and get your name around, it gives you a bit more power even if you aren't a big star. My stuff was sold in Best Buy, Virgin, Tower Records, Coconuts, Sam Goody etc so it's really helpful to have the right distribution.
 
This is why record labels are so important. You can't even compare something like the distribution you would get from say Disc Makers or CD Baby. A label (even if it's a decent Indy) will have connections. These connections come by way of distribution and licensing. I not only released all over the world, but to this day have a record deal within Japan with a company called Marquee Avalon. It's not easy to get a Japanese deal. You need connections for it...and without my first label hooking me up with them having "contact power" I would have never landed that deal.
 
With licensing comes publishing and air-play. This again, is where connections come into play that can only come from a label. My publishing company in Japan "The Burnn! Corporation owns about 40 radio stations as well as a few magazines. Each time I appear on a station or in their mag, I get royalties for that. So as you can see, we're building things up more and more now on "the inside" of the deal.
 
The deal you sign is what's important. With an Indy, there are less middle men. For example, my deals have all been the same. They give me an advance. Once the advance is recouped, I get 50% of every album sold and 100% of my publishing IF the label doesn't tap into its connections for airplay. When airplay is done by one of my labels (one in Europe, one in Japan) there is a publishing split. For Europe, the split is 30 me, 30 the label 40 for GEMA. For Japan, it's 45 me, 45 the label 10 for Burnn!. In the USA, since no one has done any radio airplay for me here and probably never will, if I decide to push it myself, I get 100% of my publishing.
 
But the beauty in all of this lies within the connections I've made all through my journey. I have enough of my own connections to do all my own licensing and distribution with companies from all over the world. The main thing in this business is connections. Once you have them, your worst enemy is yourself.
 
-Danny

Thanks Danny for sharing very interesting reading,
but how do you actually start with independent labels? What's the procedure and costs involved?

offnote


Thanks Danny for sharing very interesting reading,
but how do you actually start with independent labels? What's the procedure and costs involved?

You're very welcome. :)
 
Labels: The first thing to keep in mind is, you must always be a few steps ahead of them. If you are searching for a record deal, you must have all your ducks in a row and be willing to do what they tell you in the drop of a hat. Meaning, if all you have ready are 4 songs, if they like you, rest assured they will ask for more. Don't make them wait. Don't make excuses....don't be slow to reply and always use FedEx even if it costs you more money. Timing is the key. That should be your only cost. Sending things in the mail and of course your time if you are doing the recording. If not, you'll need to hire studio and may need to front the money until the label advances you and gives you the money back. That's the only out of pocket expenses I've ever had though. Flights too...sometimes hotels. They reimburse you for all that though, so it's not really out of pocket. I've only had to do that a few times...but most times they pay for things in advance and when they didn't, they'd pay me in cash when I got where I was going or shortly after.
 
But approaching them depends on how they handle things. Most big labels will not talk to you due to them wanting to speak to an attorney because they have a "no unsolicited material" rule. Meaning, if you don't have any legal representation or legal representation ties to that label, you don't have a chance.
 
With Indy labels, this is a bit different but it depends on how big the Indy is. Most times you can do a search on the net looking for labels that cater to your style of music. Dropping them an email asking if they would be interested in you with a short (and I do mean short...I can't use my "Danny novels" on them lol) bio and a bit of what you're about as well as what your music is like. Don't send an mp3 or any links unless they tell you it's acceptable.
 
But most of them don't have a "no unsolicited material" rule so they are approachable. Don't let the word "Indy" scare you, offnote. I made more money with my Indy's than I did when I was with Sony years ago. The Indy's don't quite have the power a major has, but they also don't have as many "middle men" that need to get paid. They don't mess with your publishing as much and they can pay you because everything is on a smaller scale.
 
For example, both my deals currently sport the same sort of contract. They give me an advance. That advance pays for recording costs, money to live, pay the band if I have one etc. Once they recoup that money in sales, I get half of every CD sold. The key is to keep your advance low if you can. Like for me, I don't need much advance money because I own the studio I record in and I really don't need to be paid for that. So, when the album gets released, my recoup period is much shorter because my advance was smaller.
 
The other side of the coin is....sometimes it's better to take the biggest advance you can because if you flop, you got a little something out of it. Sometimes you have to pay that back to the label though...it depends on the deal you make. Or, if you tank, they may give you another chance at another album. All the money from that would pay off your first advance before you'd see a dime from the new album.
 
Most times we sell the CD's for $10.00. Once the stores get them, they jack them up to about $15, sometimes $18. So, with each sale, I see $5.00, the label sees $5.00. Times that by the amount of CD's....which in my case is usually quite decent, and you can grab quite a bit of cash. 5000 sales as a worst case scenario times $5.00....which is pretty easy for me to do in my style of music, (I've crushed that both times so far) and there's a nice 25k in your pocket. 2500-5000 in sales units is actually decent for any Indy artist for their first CD. Add in endorsements, radio airplay in Europe and Japan, and you can make a nice living from it. Get airplay in America and you can really kick some tail. My labels don't push me on the radio in the USA, but do push me in the stores, so any US publishing that comes my way is all on me or if I hire a radio marketer. But that's a whole other conversation. Again though, the 2500-5000 in CD sales is a worst case scenario. Try to sell that many without the help of a label and distribution. You're lucky if you sell 1000 on your own....VERY lucky.
 
So the contact part is easy. You just have to be able to deliver the goods after that or you don't stand a chance. For example, when I got my deal with a label in England in 1999, I had never played and sang live before. All my stuff was studio only at that point. We released a song off the album before it was done to get the feelers out and it exploded. From there, we tried another and that too was just nuts.
 
The next thing you know, the label calls me and says "we're doing so well with this song we need you to play here in 2 weeks." I was like...."WHAT?! I never sang and played at the same time doing lead vocals....I'm so not ready for this!! You told me I'd have plenty of time to prepare.....omg...I'm still working on mixing the rest of the album...no no no no no!"
 
After a long chat with the label president, he warned me that it was crucial to strike while the iron was hot. I told him I have no problems with that, but you can't grab me in the middle of mixing this album and make me play live when I told you I'd not had a chance to do that yet! So, he talked me into it. The next 2 weeks were pure hell on me. Playing guitar the way I play and singing lead vocals is/was a nightmare. I had to go through it all in steps. The first thing was to learn all the songs I'd be playing on guitar without thinking about them so I could concentrate on singing.
 
So once I had the songs all down (took me about 4 days to lock in on guitar and get all the lead guitar parts down) I started to at least try and move my mouth while playing. Once I sort of got that down, I started whispering the words sort of to get my lips used to moving. LOL! By the last week, I was pretty confident and had everything down. What I was terrified about at THIS stage was, would the backing band he hired for me be able to cut it as well as all the back up vocals I do?
 
Needless to say, the show went off without a hitch and was a great boost for my career. I played to a packed house and went all the way to England to do it....which was a first for me. I had never been out of the USA at that point. My reason for sharing this with you, you always have to be ready. If this label president was a slave driver, he would have said "you do the gig or you can find a new deal." Instead, he talked me through it and truthfully...he shouldn't have had to. I still don't think they should have interrupted my mixing for this one off show and forced me to step up and perform, but I'm glad they did because that gig brought on a tour throughout England which was one of the best times I ever had in my life with other tours that followed.
 
So, when you go into this thing....leave no stone unturned. Be ready for anything. Don't ever lie or pad the truth...tell it like it is and step up and rip their faces off whenever you can. An Indy may not be the be all end all as far as a deal goes, but you never know what connections you might make from it. That's where it's really made a difference in my life. The clients I mix and master for are mostly artists and labels/studios. Some big and well known, others will be known soon or had their time. It also paved the way for the record deals I am working out now for my new album. You just never know where you'll end up and you will just about always make some money on an Indy. The majors have too many things that go on. You have to be a super star to see anything big. Even at that, you may not make anything because they own you...period. All your publishing, all your songs, everything. And, though it pains me to say this, rightfully so because if you get a major deal, they sink hundreds of thousands into you, maybe even millions if they believe in you enough...so it's only right they get that investment back.
 
Indy labels may spend 25k-250k on you if you're good enough...sometimes more. So definitely consider contacting a few. They are approachable for the most part and if they aren't, you can always do what I did....act like "the attorney for Offnote." LOL!!! Yeah, I was so broke at the time man, I couldn't afford an attorney. I studied some music and law so I turned into Anthony Gianovisci....acting attorney for Danny Danzi. LOL!! The label didn't know this for nearly 6 months...then one day, I finally came clean about it. Thankfully, the president had a laugh, called me a lil git, a wanker, and then bought me a beer. Hahaha! Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do! But that was the only lil fib I told. I knew enough about contracts etc to add in my ammendments and counter some of the things they had in the contract. When I parted ways with that company, it was an amicable split with no law suits. :)
 
Anyway, hope some of this helps.
 
-Danny

Danny: Indy labels may spend 25k-250k on you if you're good enough...sometimes more. So definitely consider contacting a few. They are approachable for the most part and if they aren't, you can always do what I did....act like "the attorney for Offnote." LOL!!! Yeah, I was so broke at the time man, I couldn't afford an attorney. I studied some music and law so I turned into Anthony Gianovisci....acting attorney for Danny Danzi. LOL!! The label didn't know this for nearly 6 months...then one day, I finally came clean about it. Thankfully, the president had a laugh, called me a lil git, a wanker, and then bought me a beer. Hahaha! Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do! But that was the only lil fib I told. I knew enough about contracts etc to add in my ammendments and counter some of the things they had in the contract. When I parted ways with that company, it was an amicable split with no law suits. :) 


Acting attorney?, I love it   but I don't know if that's ideal because some labels might actually get peed off about it LOL!! 


Danny, your contributions to this thread (and other threads) is excellent as always. 


Just want to add a few more strategies that may help others here; 


#1 go through a well known reputable highly respected manager; I was referred to him based purely on my demo and it didn't cost me penny. He actually really liked my music, gave me an hour of free consultation and then got straight on the phone to the major label to arrange a meeting. But in the follow weeks unfortunately very terrible circumstances occurred out of my control (death of the lead singer) that ended a deal before it got off the ground and also because my alternative option (long story) the other singer just didn't cut it. I fell into a deep depression because I loved the singer and after her death I couldn't focus on my music as much as I needed to. 


#2 a lot of writers think about fame, being the next big hit and making a fortune but unfortunately regardless of how good their songs are they'd probably would have made more money working 9 to 5; office job.  So anyway.... what is often overlooked is; publishing and through them songwriters can earn a fair amount of money for example; music placement for film and jingles.  Also; usually advances paid are small but not required to be paid back and they will cover costs for studio time and mastering.  Also; writers signed to a publishing deal will over time gain valuable connections.  But of course being signed to a publisher has other advantages such as; there is nothing stopping the writer forming a band and pitching to record label. The trade-off (compromise) when doing it this way (being signed to a publisher) is that; usually 'they' might want you to steer your music direction to whatever they see fit and the shares (rights) are usually less for the writer(s) but having a publishing deal with a label the band can usually get a more generous advancement ($$$)!     


#3 what's become more popular for bands and solo artist/writer is wanting to have more control of their music direction and more share of their song rights is by first; registering their own publishing/label LLC and have someone they trust to act as president for the company who then represents the band on their behalf = this itself has advantages in regards to business liaisons and outcomes...  In a lot of cases if the band has pretty good success they then usually go on to sign with a major label thereby becoming a 'Partner' label (sub)   This method is attractive because being your own publisher/label the band has more control of their direction and gets to keep most of the rights (unlike example #2) and since the songs are registered under the band's (writers) LLC name. 


In the case for #3; it becomes a lot easier to build up a good list of connections thereby being unsigned does not necessarily mean they can't get connections.  Hint: No one need know or ask that the band actually owns the publishing/label and because they assign a good person (not a band member, usually it be a longtime friend or family member that they trust) who is very knowledgeable; has very good business etiquette in regards to liaisons in strict accordance with the band directives = the band remains in full control of all directives and finances. 


Anyway; that about sums it up (in brief), seriously a person could fill 2,000 pages in regards to this topic explaining better and in more detail but I ain't got the time LOL!  I'm sure there are good articles out there to help get started. 


Wish everyone great success. 


Post Edit: sorry, typos due to doing other things (multitasking)! 

Rich beats famous any time!

I have a formula, of a band from the 90s, that I would love to rip off.  I figure if I had $150,000..  I could:

1.  Hold an audition for the vocalists I want.

2.  Have the appropiate contracts written by the correct attorneys.  Contracts that would make sure my hand was in every piece there was.

3.  Record the record/media, shoot the video parts, and create a viral social media campaign

4.  Start with a small supporting tour..  Here in South Florida, and head down to South America.


$150,000 is not that much money, I think I can do all that, for $150..  and I think I would make money: Not on the music, not on the tour.  But on the product endorsements.


I have this all worked out in my head.  I know:  The look I want.  The music I would write.  The videos I would shoot.  How I would make it all go viral.  How I would structure the tour.  and which companies I would hunt after to sponsor it.

What I do not have is:  $150k.   And a few connections.

Edit = I so know, what I would do, with the music..  I so know what I would do https://soundcloud.com/au.oghoststudios/miami-vice

I can't believe I didn't win that powerball!!!!!   ah!  Ruff life.

Really good stuff in this thread. 

I believe it may have been when I was a TAXI member at the rally in LA...or perhaps somewhere else... but it was a comparrison chart of the money made by  a big name artist vs an indy selling on a smaller scale.

The indy actually made way more money on sales up to about 20,000 units and the break even point was much much lower for the indy. The problem the indy has is getting the word out to create the buzz and interest in the music to sell more than the first 12 CD's. 

The major artist didn't break even or show a profit let alone make any money until the sales were in excess of 100,000 copies IIRC. 

even in todays market ...or should I say especially in today's market.... the big boys and girls do not make their money on the CD's and the music. It's all made in the merchandising that goes on.... T-shirts, cups, photos, etc.... The music gets the fans in the door, the merch makes the money. 

On a smaller scale.... back in the day.... serious story here. The band I played in was well before the CD and home studios so we never recorded anything. But we did set up and sell T-shirts with our logo, and photos as well as buttons. It was supposed to be a joint venture but I was the only one in the band who had the money to pay the man for the t-shirts.... so it was determined to be my "side project" with the bands blessing and they could buy in if they wanted. (they never did) 
At clubs and other events we played, I kept the t-shirts stocked in various sizes and colors and plenty of pics and buttons too. It became a big part of my income on the weekends and in many places, I made more from the merchandise sales than I did from the gig. If we had tapes to sell, we could have made even more. 

My point is that it works even on a small scale. CD's sold on site are almost pure profit. 

A talented and smart local act with a solid fan base can make a nice living locally in the clubs and at the events they play when they combine merchandising into the big picture. 


EDIT TO ADD: If you want to make money, you have to treat it like a business. Because, plain and simple...that's what it is.  In the clubs and at live dates and events collect emails from the fans. Have an email signup sheet on the table and get everyone to sign up. Keep it current... remove the "bouncers" and send out announcments of scheduled dates, new music offers, give the occasional "free MP3 download" of a new song available only to email subscribers...... advertise new projects and link to your website....
On the website have a schedule of dates and events with addresses of the venue. Keep it current or don't do it. Nothing says "I don't care" like hitting the band's website to check for dates and finding that the schedule is over a year old.... (yup... it happens..I know a band right now where this is the case) .... 

Use social media.... the dreaded Face Book and Twitter..... many folks are on those things and I have a few musician friends who advertise their upcoming live events on there all the time.... 

just a few ideas....

Herb: The indy actually made way more money on sales up to about 20,000 units and the break even point was much much lower for the indy. The problem the indy has is getting the word out to create the buzz and interest in the music to sell more than the first 12 CD's. 


There are many articles and books that may help independents - examples; 

. Guerrilla Music Marketing
. Unleash The Artist Within 
. Branding Yourself Online