seems like several of us keep repeating the same information over and over, take the highlights and run with it.



an interesting side note:

that clip that danny shows, the spike...

THIS is one of the reasons why you have to really watch your tracking.

if you allow PEAKS to sneak thru, at that moment it peaks, it will cause a digital distortion that, even if it's ultra fast, it will cause your mix to sound grainy, even as you mix it down.

this is why i suggested outboard compressors and limiters, and running conservative tracking levels.
once you have hit that ceiling going in, you are stuck with it.

a lot of folks get confused about the ability to use limiters and compressors AFTER the fact (after the signal has already hit the convertors) and that's all i'm trying to clear up.

there are a newer batch of preamps that have built in limiters and compressors, even if they are software, as long as they are upstream of the convertors, they are fair game.
whether they sound good or not, is another discussion.



irregardless of "K" metering and any of that, if you follow conservative rules, you'll always be safe, and splitting hairs about headroom is really pointless.

Should I worry about eq and compression before the meters after recording?

-----------------------
"Manufacturers often have to pack a lot in their product, therefore compromising on meter design and accuracy to cut costs. A few outboard machines' meters are driven from analog circuitry, a definite source of inaccuracy. Even manufacturers who drive their meters digitally (by the values of the sample numbers) cut costs by putting large gaps on the meter scale (avoiding costly illuminated segments), using inaccurate calculations and/or time constants or by just not translating the values right to the visible meter. As a result, there may be a -3 point and a 0 dB point, with a big no man's land in between and the values not being represantative for the signals momentary peak-level."


Are they referring to hardware and not plugins?

@ Danny:

 I'm glad you see the humor in that and come on your dog was only kidding! You've heard that for 45 years? That's an immense amount of pressure of me then! haha!

I have noticed (and I'm guilty of this, too) is that most DIY'ers that are confused are mislead by the terms Master Effects with Global Effects. These two are not the same thing. They think Master Effects a la Master Volume

"Do this to the Master, everything is affected." It's not wrong, but what is wrong is not realizing that this is still mixing.

"I wanna take away some highs or lows on the overall track." This is still in the mixing stage. Mastering is more intricate, but doesn't equate to mixing being easy. I also think that when a someone says "Here's my 'Master Track' - s/he really means "Globally Mixed" track; however, DAWs misleads user with a term such as Master/Mastering effects.

Not placing blame on them. I just see how this can skew what it means to Master which is why many experienced (or gaining experience, such as we), say that Mastering isn't activating plugins. What you're doing when you do that is still mixing, but globally.

However, The Mastered Track is often used because Globally Mixed is a mouthful. lol Again, I think this is what DIY's really mean when the term master and all its forms is used. Just my .2 cents on how I look at it.

Now, it could be that I'm admitting ineptitude in this area, but I'd rather someone who knew what s/he was doing do this instead of me.

In terms of globally mixing, I think I am getting the hang of it.

When I am dealing with a short extra large sound during mastering I approach it by limiting how high the spike actually goes. Using a volume envelope the way Makeshift has suggested in my mind is not good because you will also loose power by using a volume envelope to pull the spike down. That to me is not the way to fit a large spike into the situation. A better way is to use a limit function just on that spike where the top level is simply lowered to match the rest of the music a lot better. The power stays and it still sounds big and transient. You can lower a transient quite a way before that becomes audible.

Adobe Audition has a got a great function where you can do a hard limit to a certain value. It just pulls the top of the spike down. It does not distort the shape of the waveform at the top either.

After a percussive mix especially I find there a lot of spikes that jump up more than they should I will run a hard limit over the whole track to just clip the tops of the extra loud silly ones down. This usually results in the ability to add a further 2 or 3 dB in the rms value of the whole track. Track just got louder without any obvious changes to transient quality.

I add gain to a track in the analog domain when feeding into or coming out of the Smart C2 compressor in mastering. Analog is a good place to add gain.

And to sharpdion23 a good place to set any metering is last in the chain. That way the meter will show you what the level is taking into account any level changes that have resulted from effects processing. If you apply EQ to a track using a lot of boost then the track will get louder. But you might lower the level going into and coming out of the EQ plugin (using its own in and out level controls, that is what they are for) to put the K Meter back to normal. Use the fader in the mixer to set the track level to where you want it to be in the mix. That is what the fader is for.

Hey Jeff,

I am actually not suggesting a volume envelope at all.  I am asking if that is what Danny meant because I don't know.  When Danny said that he "hand edits each spike individually"; I was trying to actually understand how he does this.

+1 to Danny as well in regard to doing a volume automation over a whole mix in mastering. You can make a mix a lot better just by doing it. It is nice to be to emphasise certain parts of the mix.

One thing I find if you use a K system approach all the way through production by the time you get to mastering you are looking at a very nice waveform that is very consistent in volume (still with nice transients too) with lots of headroom to play with especially when you are doing volume automation over a whole mix. You have got room to go up as well. Then the limiter just adds the overall rms level still keeping things pretty clean and undistorted. There is always a point when the limiter does not sound good too and if you are careful you can stay just under it.

Danny I find with the PSP Xenon you can listen to it for a while (with your chosen input level setting) and then just lower the input level knob by 1 or 1.5 dB even and the overall output level has not changed at all but the mix has just got a little clearer as a result. But when you look at the meter showing you how often the limiter is in gain reduction it is happening a lot less. The Transient control effects the mix as well I can hear it. 

that was my whole point about 'conservative' recording levels.

be the MASTER OF YOUR TRACKING LEVELS.

my mantra.

if that means outboard processing prior to conversion, do it.

if that means low recording levels to insure clean recordings, do it.

the point is, get good at it, and then do it.

MakeShift


Excellent post Danny, I am soaking it all in.  One question, so when you say you manually reduce these spikes, are you saying that you create a volume envelope, click in some nodes, and then literally pull those spikes down in volume?

On the dog story, I think every neighborhood has one of those dogs that just, for what ever reason, can't bark like a real dog.  That was funny and I laughed pretty good.....been there.

Mike, thanks! I made you (and anyone else that wants to see it) a 12 minute video explaining a few things. You'll totally get where I'm coming from when you see it. It's rendering now....as soon as it's done I'll post up a link. :)
 
-Danny

Here you go Mike, (and anyone else that cares to watch) check this out if you get a minute. :)

http://youtu.be/G8HYuA8ilDU

-Danny