I have a band that came to me and wanted one more song done for an album, They did 5 songs with an accomplished engineer/producer, the guy is big time (so to speak) and has done some big name hard rock & metal bands, then decided there was one more song they wanted on the record but couldn't afford to have the same studio do it.  I agreed to take on the challenge.    

    I listened to some of the other work this producer has done to get an idea for his mix style/placements/panning etc.  I then tried to mix it like I would but adopting some of what he tends to do so this song doesn't stand out like a sore thumb.   They hadn't gotten any of the final mixes/masters back from him to show me what their songs sounded like so I had to go off his previous work.    Initially the plan was that they would take my mix and bring it to him to have it mastered with the rest of the record..... they didn't.     So they then asked me to "master this up the best I can".  I didn't want to just limit the crap out of it...

The band just sent me an mp3 of 1 song from this big studio.... holy CR@P!!!  Look at these wave forms.....   it sounds ok for that overcompressed metal sound I guess, but wow is this whole mix hot....  Not sure that's in a good way either.  To match this or even come close I would have to squash the crud out of mine.   Look at these waveforms!!  The song I did (obviously) is the one on top.   I pulled these into Audacity here on my laptop to listen to them back to back since I am not at my daw right now.

Edit - Picture was not showing up like it should.... https://www.dropbox.com/s...yxt75743ifz/MarnJuWVKI

It's pathetic, certainly. He may or may not actually believe he was doing evil, but would have probably done it anyway for a number of totally stupid reasons.

Hopefully, the dynamics are suitable for the band's style of music. If not, it would sad indeed that those fellows spent their hard-earned money on a "big time" engineer, only to be delivered a generic treatment. Sadder still, it is now your job to match it. 

I would casually mention that if the album art is already done, I wouldn't be offended if they left my name off the credits.

Depending on how you mix and master the song you are recording for them... yours might even sound better than the "big time" guy if you were to keep the dynamics in the music and let it breathe a bit....... wouldn't that be a nice compliment?

Yeah it would, but this is a metal band and historically (well actually in more recent history...) they are ALL compressed to hell & back.  It's the in yer face sound I guess.
   
   I was working on it some more for a bit last night and made some headway, still have tweaking to go though I am trying to talk the band in to letting me have Danny D. Deal with mastering & level matching my work to this guys crushed production...  I have actually resaved the project under a different name now "Band-Songtitle-Crushed"  because that is what I am having to do to it.

   Ya know one side effect I have found is that if you are stepping on the mix like this, you mix skills (or in some cases a lack there-of) are less evident.  Everything is now up front!  Ya know that imaginary stage in yer head you use to mix on??   All of the band members are now standing up there where they would take a bow at the end of the show, only the MUSIC IS STILL PLAYING!!!  and it's LOUD AS HELL  haha   

ChuckC


Yeah it would, but this is a metal band and historically (well actually in more recent history...) they are ALL compressed to hell & back.  It's the in yer face sound I guess.
 
 I was working on it some more for a bit last night and made some headway, still have tweaking to go though I am trying to talk the band in to letting me have Danny D. Deal with mastering & level matching my work to this guys crushed production...  I have actually resaved the project under a different name now "Band-Songtitle-Crushed"  because that is what I am having to do to it.

 Ya know one side effect I have found is that if you are stepping on the mix like this, you mix skills (or in some cases a lack there-of) are less evident.  Everything is now up front!  Ya know that imaginary stage in yer head you use to mix on??   All of the band members are now standing up there where they would take a bow at the end of the show, only the MUSIC IS STILL PLAYING!!!  and it's LOUD AS HELL  haha   

Hahaha! It's funny though Chuck...some of this stuff literally sounds good being crushed. Could you imagine Godsmack or a band like Periphery not being crushed? Here's how I look at things bro...and maybe this will put your mind at ease.
 
We have recording technologies from back in the day that simply don't accentuate *some* of this stuff TODAY. I'm not saying it's an excuse to ruin music...but for the times, some of this stuff doesn't need to be dynamic. I know....I can't believe I'm saying that, but it's true in a sense for SOME bands. They want to be loud, proud, aggressive and rip the flesh off peoples bones. The crushing can also hide mistakes because let's face it, if you solo'd some of these bands up or make the recording cleaner, people might just get a clue as to how much help they really do need, ya know?
 
The other side of the coin....most classic rock guys or the older crowd may not listen to or appreciate the new stuff anyway...so you sometimes have to watch how much you take in from others. Listening to a guy that loves The Doors ain't gonna help you much with what YOU are working with. That's not a bash on any of the older folks or classic rock lovers here that have posted or may be reading, honest. It's just that you would want to be careful taking advice from someone that sings like Freddie Mercury when you are looking to sound like Manson or Soilwork. Way different styles regardless of which may be better to people.
 
This is a totally different style of music. I'm on the train where nothing needs to be crushed like what we hear today...but some of it actually benefits from it as much as it pains me to say that. There's nothing worse than a band that isn't very good sounding clear as a bell to where I can hear the mistakes. LOL! I'd rather dirty them up and crush em up with compression and limiting if it hides their mistakes...especially if it makes them happy. Although, I seriously try to stay away from that.
 
There is "loud and acceptable" and then there's "loud and obnoxious that sounds like crap". I had a guy beg me to master him as loud as Metallica....I declined for two reasons.
 
1. I have no interest in those jobs. Oh joy...what fun. LOL!
 
2. I just will not participate in anything that loud and ruined and have my name on it. We all want to make money, but I'm not gonna do that for the sake of a paycheck. There are plenty of guys out there that would love to fly a blinking sign on their wall stating "loudest engineer alive"....I'm just not one of them. LOL! :)
 
-Danny

That waveform is pretty standard these days. It's certainly not surprising at all. It doesn't have to sound bad. Mastered well, it can be quite listenable. When done well, it tends to not sound digitally distorted (unlike Metallica for example). So I wouldn't be too scared from that image. Really depends how it sounds. And mixed/mastered well, a chorus can still kick in with frequency and spacial dynamics rather than volume dynamics. What do I mean by that? I remember an episode of Pensado's Place with Michael Brauer where he spoke about this - achieving dynamic feel with limited volume dynamics. He talks about a verse not being panned too hard left and right and with almost a bit of a highpass and a lowpass to just cut off a little. Then when the chorus kicks in, bass drops in more, highs are brighter, width comes out to max L and R and the mids and thickness fills out. The whole time, the volume does not really change much. It looks hyper squashed the entire time, but it still SOUNDS dynamic.

I agree pretty much with what Danny has said above. I think it's a little too excessive these days, but certain styles it suits. Heavy dubstep for example can sound good with that in your face sound.

True, there is much more to dynamics than volume alone, and you can mitigate the limitations of ubercompression by accentuating those other dynamic elements. But why on earth would you toss out the hammer from your toolbox and make up for its absence with a great collection of screwdrivers?

All you have to do is listen to some punchy pre-volume-war material. Listen to it loud. Really loud if that's what you like. Crank up some Rare Earth and see if you can keep your toes still.

WOW  Was there any dynamics to it at all or did it all just come together as a leveled out consistent comp? 

Hey Chuck.... another option you might want to ask about..... all they can do is say NO....  

See if you can get the un-mastered master tracks all mixed and everything....and then do your mastering on ALL of them..... perhaps that would give continuity to the sound and like I said, it might sound better not being so crushed up....... then let them choose.