One of the reasons I usually use a hi pass on the kick drum is because I have a rather large hi powered sub woofer and a bass controlled room and I can actually hear the nasty undertones on the kick drum mic that I want to minimize with a hi pass.

It could also be that I use a selection of mic that gets ALL the bass tone coming off the bass drum.

That's why I usually do that... because I can actually hear the stuff I want to not hear.

Same for the bass guitar. With a fundamental of low E at 41 hz, some cool undertones, and a dedicated preamp that doesn't have a built in lo cut factor as a result of a inadequate miniaturized power supply, you can actually hear some nifty low under tones that the musician wasn't planning on using well below the 41 Hz. 

That's why I usually do that... because I can actually hear the stuff I want to not hear.

:-)

One should always make all these decisions within the context of the music they are dealing with and listening too.





Also, I like soft slopes and I like steep slopes. They sound different in context and it can be enjoyable to choose the slope you prefer while listening.

best regards,
mike

Wow  Thanks Danny and Mike

Lots for me to consider and learn from here

Danny really hit me with 
-- blanket of lows that sort of sound like wooooooossss or wussssssssss in the background
--sisssssssssssss, eeeeeeeeeeesssssss or shhhhhhhh and you'd just sweep through the frequencies to find out where it's coming from.


Sweeping is exactly what Ive been doing trying to do or eliminate what I think Im hearing as I play with each track trying NOT to thin things out.  


Its interesting that a lot say not to solo when doing this which really gets me on how to zero in on something I think Im hearing needs cut. But then I understand its a training thing Im still growing into as far as how to listen for it first.


I would assume that when the mix comes together as a whole, the smaller things would come together in the end creating the unwanted noise Danny refers to even worse?


Interesting that even if you had a HPF on every track set at the default 40hz (or lower) it wouldnt hurt just to have it there to start adjusting as needed.


Maybe most of my reasoning in using this is the Live recordings I do that have loads of bleed everywhere (which seems to enhance all the bad noises) and it seems easier to get control of it when I go back in and create other tracks to make something stand out better or more isolated where normal EQing doesnt really get rid of it.


I dont seem to need it as much when I record in a more controlled environment.


Reason I say this is the difference in opinions and I LOVE all of your guys work Ive heard and respect each of your inputs on this.
None of it goes un-noticed and I will try and learn from each and put it to work in some way for me.  






I hope this thread continues on the track its taking.

digi MikeIts interesting that a lot say not to solo when doing this which really gets me on how to zero in on something I think Im hearing needs cut. But then I understand its a training thing Im still growing into as far as how to listen for it first.

 
Here's why they say that, and I say that too, Mike. When you solo something up and work on an eq, you tend to mix for "the sound" instead of "the song" understand? We don't want that because 8 out of 10 times, until you really get a grasp on this stuff, that sound will NOT work in the context of a mix if you worked on it by itself. This is why solo is no good. But for you to learn what to listen for in certain situations, solo can help you until you learn these things.
 

digi MikeI would assume that when the mix comes together as a whole, the smaller things would come together in the end creating the unwanted noise Danny refers to even worse?

 
Sometimes it will. It depends on what and how you've tracked. That's what I'm trying to point out here. You may not have certain things in your mix due to how you recorded them. When I record something these days, and I'm serious when I say this, I do NOT need lots of eq-ing in my mixes because I've spent the time at the sound creation and tracking stage. I usually get away with high passing a little, low passing a little and lightly sculpting mids for thickness or highs to cut through a little if need be. I can eq any sound that I recorded myself in about 2-5 minutes tops and it's a keeper.
 
That doesn't mean that anyone else will like the sound but me...lol...but it's usually good enough for me and my clients are always happy as well. See, the more you take care of business before you track, the less you take care of while you mix. Rest assured, the pro's we all know and love rarely sit there screwin' around with a sound for 2 hours trying to make it work in a mix. They know before they record it whether it will work or not. Then of course there ARE times when you are sound creating where you may sit there and experiment with a turd and make a special effect out of it. It's always different really and depends on what you're faced with when you do the tracking.
 

digi MikeInteresting that even if you had a HPF on every track set at the default 40hz (or lower) it wouldnt hurt just to have it there to start adjusting as needed.

 
You COULD do that if you wanted to just to have it ready to go, but see, not everthing is going to need a high pass in that area. High passing a guitar in that area or lower does nothing. High passing a vocal in that area or lower does nothing. Now a kick drum or a bass guitar, yeah you're gonna get a little something there depending on the Q you use. For keys where the person is using lots of low notes on the left hand, yeah, you're gonna get something there too. But just using 40 as a starting point is rather moot in my opinion because chances are, you're never going to keep anything there unless an instrument was recorded in a way to where that frequency and below needs to be controlled.
 
There are so many variables to figure in on this Mike, it can spin your head around really. Mics, techniques, the soundsource itself, what your monitors are telling you, the room, the sim, the DI....it's endless really which is why I sincerely feel starting points for high passing and low passing are just useless. Too much depends on how the instrument was tracked.
 
For example say someone sends you an old stereo drum track that they couldn't do much with where the drums appeared to be a bit too high passed and the kick wasn't thumping enough. Now, if this is your soundsource and they came out of the gate sounding like that, a 40 Hz high pass would either:
 
a) Take away the little low end that was there (depending on the Q)
 
or
 
b) not make a difference at all because there wasn't any low end in that range to be removed.
 
So this is where you have to use your ears to make the right decisions and why starting points will not work. The more you do this stuff Mike, the more you learn what makes a good sound for recording and what doesn't. If we don't have any high end sizzle on a guitar track, we do ourselves an injustice low passing 8k and above. You have to determine if an instrument really has something in it to begin with before you just take it away, understand? :)
 
-Danny

"Danny Danzi"
See, the more you take care of business before you track, the less you take care of while you mix.

Amen to that!

Alegria

"Danny Danzi"

See, the more you take care of business before you track, the less you take care of while you mix.

Amen to that!

I've even seen people use the lo-cut switches on microphones.


;-)

Im with ya Danny,

Im one of those "it is what it is" people when Im thrown something and try to work with it from there. 

December Im asked to go to a new place and do a Live Recording because the singer is splitting off and moving up in the world.  The entire band wants a memorable keepsake from their playing together.

I know what I have to work with equipment wise and my current abilities and hope I dont get in the way to much.  They have been very happy with past recordings and have gained alot of gigs off of them so Im not worried there. 

But as far as being able to get as good a recording off the bat is where the challenges for me come in.  Alot of unknowns prior to going in but we do the best we can and its hard to mess about when someone is on a paying gig trying to please the public  and all my equipment will be separate from theirs.  

But you guys are right and I understand that there are a million different variables before we even get to the point of mixing and deciding on HPF/LPF.  At this point Im still sucking it all into my brain before going out like this so I can be better prepared to try more and more things to get better at it without getting in the way.  

digi2ns


Im with ya Danny,

Im one of those "it is what it is" people when Im thrown something and try to work with it from there. 

December Im asked to go to a new place and do a Live Recording because the singer is splitting off and moving up in the world.  The entire band wants a memorable keepsake from their playing together.

I know what I have to work with equipment wise and my current abilities and hope I dont get in the way to much.  They have been very happy with past recordings and have gained alot of gigs off of them so Im not worried there. 

But as far as being able to get as good a recording off the bat is where the challenges for me come in.  Alot of unknowns prior to going in but we do the best we can and its hard to mess about when someone is on a paying gig trying to please the public  and all my equipment will be separate from theirs.  

But you guys are right and I understand that there are a million different variables before we even get to the point of mixing and deciding on HPF/LPF.  At this point Im still sucking it all into my brain before going out like this so I can be better prepared to try more and more things to get better at it without getting in the way.  

In this situation, you just go for the most balanced sound you can get while trying your best to keep the instruments you're mic'ing up as pure sounding as they sound when you literally listen to them in the live atmosphere. I know...easier said than done. Just remember....just about always, we can add things. So if you go for balanced, most of the time you can create or sculpt if need be. If you over-do something, depending on what or how it's over-done, you sometimes can't undo it. :)
 
So just be careful with any outboard gear or anything destructive like excessive eq pre print, compression on the way in, mic pre's too hot etc. Go for balanced and be careful of excessive coloration at this point and you'll be fine. In a live recording that I will take back and mix at my studio, my experience has been to keep it balanced and don't try to make it sound like a polished, finished album or a finished master. Trying too hard at this stage of the game can really mess you up. Just capture pure sounds without excessive processing and you should be be fine. Good luck with that Mike, I hope it turns out great and you can maybe share some of it with us. :)
 
-Danny

Thank you Sir,

Sure will!!!