Hi Everyone.

I've been trying to find out how to analyze contemporary music, such as Michael Jackson's Billy Jean, any of the The Beatles's songs, old Nintendo songs, Jazz (house, smooth, etc.), 90's rock and so on. I took a few classes on tonal harmony, but those are for 1800's hymns. What kind of music theory is used to help write contemporary songs? Where do I even begin to look? I checked out Berklee, but they charge 1k for a class (that's pretty much two years worth of vst instruments for me). Are there any really good books, online classes references, etc.?

Also, I have a Final Fantasy piano book that lists the chords above certain measures such as A min and E7th. I understand that those are the chords for the current measure, but how can you really tell if it's a A min chord or a 13th chord in the 5th inversion or some crazy thing like that?

Is there a junior college in your area? I would think most would have a decent music program where you could study harmony and theory.

As far as your last question, the quality of a chord is determined by how far the notes are from each other. A minor chord (triad) is made by stacking a major third (four half steps) on top of a minor third (3 half steps). A major chord is made by stacking a minor third on top of a major third. Chords can get pretty crazy but the basic chords are pretty easy to figure out. 


How much music theory do you know? Can you read music? Do you know why there are flats and sharps in music? It's hard to know what, if any, advice to give without having some idea of how far along you already are.

Songs go by whatever key signature the song is in.

Simple answer: train your ear.

Your ear gets it before your noggin. If anyone thinks that's bravado it is not. Music is not a "book" thing. It comes in books, yes, but it comes from and goes to the ear first.

Having said this, there are online sources: Forums I have one in my sig. Check it out. Your eyes will pop out at first, but it is VERY informative. YT videos, other music theory related websites and you'll see and hear what is being done and how it's being done and enjoy more than reading some book (Forums are book like, but you can interact on a forum) 

Not to mention some lessons on this forum, too. (Will you dare come under my wing? haha)

Do click the link in my sig (the first one)


Here's a channel I'm subscribed to on YT: http://www.youtube.com/feed/UCBKvmNibsNRtlmFUgp1_npw 
A music theory website: http://www.musictheory.net/   

This site does a song analysis every week of some current or past hit. While not a theory-based analysis, he has a fantastic approach for breaking down a song into easy to understand parts: history, the Song, Arrangement, Sound, Production. You can spend a few hours going through all the tunes he has reviewed and learn a lot more than any class.

http://bobbyowsinski.blogspot.com/

SuperStruct


Hi Everyone.

I've been trying to find out how to analyze contemporary music, such as Michael Jackson's Billy Jean, any of the The Beatles's songs, old Nintendo songs, Jazz (house, smooth, etc.), 90's rock and so on. I took a few classes on tonal harmony, but those are for 1800's hymns. What kind of music theory is used to help write contemporary songs? Where do I even begin to look? I checked out Berklee, but they charge 1k for a class (that's pretty much two years worth of vst instruments for me). Are there any really good books, online classes references, etc.?

Also, I have a Final Fantasy piano book that lists the chords above certain measures such as A min and E7th. I understand that those are the chords for the current measure, but how can you really tell if it's a A min chord or a 13th chord in the 5th inversion or some crazy thing like that?

Hi Super,
 
Wow that's a pretty loaded question there. I mean that in a good way. :) I think you may be in need of some theory from reading your post. For example, as you go through your life experiencing music and knowing the sound a certain chord makes, it has nothing to do with having perfect pitch...you just know what THAT particular chord voicing sounds like. If you knew some theory and worked on pitches and got familiar with the sounds of certain chords, you can hear them on the radio and know what they are...or at least come close.
 
Like for example, I may hear a guitarist or piano player, play what sounds like an E chord to me. When I try to play it, it may be an Eb because they tuned a half a step down on the recording. Or for example, the chord formation that you would use for the first G chord you would learn on the guitar, has a sound to it like no other. Even when tuned down, it maintains this certain voice.
 
I can hum a perfect G chord at any time. Why? I have no idea. LOL! It's the only one I can hum though and nail every single time. I can then go through the notes and figure something out. I know a half step up gives me G# (or Ab depending on what school you come from lol) and a half step down gives me F#. So if I heard something that I wanted to figure out and didn't have an instrument with me, it would take me a little while...but I'd get it or come really close just by humming that G as my starting point and then making the jumps up or down to figure out the rest.
 
I can listen to a progression on the radio and to me, it may sound like Am7, F, D and E....so I've already visualized the movement of the chords. However, because I do not have perfect pitch, when I pick up my guitar, I may find that the chords are Bm7, G, E and F#. So though I blew the actual note values, the progression was in my head and I missed all the chords by whole/half step. Some guys with perfect pitch, will nail these every time.
 
People like me with relative pitch, rely on memory or just knowing what certain chords sound like...or we come close and can instantly figure out what something is the second we pick up an instrument. I can listen to something on the radio and not have a clue what chords or notes are being used. Yet give me a guitar, and I'll have the root notes figured out in under 15 seconds...then I'll put the rest of the chord formations together. This is where having a good ear can help...and to be honest, that's all I have as I do not have perfect pitch nor do I know anything but basic theory.
 
Having a good ear is important. Meaning, if you hear something, try humming or singing exactly what you hear. Over time, this can be super helpful. The more you can hear and relate to what you hear, the easier you can extract ideas from your head.
 
As for analyzing music, it depends on how you want to analyze it. Do you want to analyze the chords? Do you want to learn the difference between a verse, pre-chorus, chorus, bridge etc? See, there are the chord structures that paint the picture for the song, and the arrangement that tells the story and further brings the picture to life.
 
Some guys analyze a song for the structure of it while others are interested in the chords played as well as why they may have been chosen or why they work. To me, this is all theory stuff that can be helpful to you. I think Chappel hit the nail on the head....some sort of school or even an online course may give you what you're looking for. But like I say...it depends what you're looking for and that's what makes this a loaded question. Rus and James nailed it also. Rus let you off easy...the dude is a theory maniac. :) But he's correct in saying it hits your ears first. The site James gave you is great and man, there is a boatload of info there...but in my opinion, I don't think I would enjoy it as much if I didn't quite understand what it all meant, you know what I mean?
 
Meaning, if you were a complete newbie to music and theory and arrangement/composition, you may get a little lost at times...where if you were a musician that was the caliber of James or had even a bare bones basic understanding of things like say me for example being clueless with a good ear, you go into it understanding things easier. I don't know anything about you musically...so please don't take it as I'm insinuating that you don't know about this stuff. I'm just saying in the event you DON'T, it may seem intimidating at first. Whatever the case, best of luck in how you decide to pursue this. Quite a few guys on this forum can feed your head with stuff that you'll be able to use forever and they'll enjoy teaching you about it. :)
 
-Danny

American music used to be, "jazz and the blues."  A lost art form imo..   Todays POP music is a 1 chord tragedy.  I do not even listen to FM Radio anymore.  I do not turn on mtv etc, etc..  

http://www.amazon.com/Mus...sy-David/dp/091832159X


Billy Jean is some sort of AM Cmajor riff..   a classic blues/jazz turnaround.  Most of the Beatles are straight I IV V, or iv I IV V turnardounds..  The latter being a minor 4th, a 1, and major 4th, and the 5th...  Bob Dylan was very into that as well...

That is a big subject.  There are so many paths to take - I'll briefly share the path I took:  As a kid I learned everything by ear - there were no guitar teachers that taught me what I wanted to learn, so I had to do it all on my own - by ear.  I got into fusion and progressive rock, which is really complex, and having a good ear didn't really do enough.  I was hungry to know what made this music "tick".  So I bought books about music theory and it drew me to jazz.  Jazz is loaded with music theory.  It's roots are in blues.  Blues is relatively simple and is the basis of a ton of contemporary pop music.  

I would say studying blues is probably the best place to start.  It is easy and gives you the basics. 

Also - study the circle of 5ths and understand dominant, subdominant and tonic chord movements.  Then you can progress to chord substitutions.   It's all about tension and release.  

What kind of music theory is used to help write contemporary songs? 

 

Music theory for "classical" is pretty much the same for contemporary music.  The rules of melody, harmony, counterpoint, etc. don't change with the style of music.  However, what you do with those rules is up to you.
 
I don't think most contemporary pop music writers give any thought to theory.  They just write what they want to hear.
 
 

I understand that those are the chords for the current measure, but how can you really tell if it's a A min chord or a 13th chord in the 5th inversion or some crazy thing like that?
 
 
 

The same way you do it for any other music.  You examine the structure of the pitches in the phrase.  Then you decide which tones are harmonic or dominant and which tones are passing or nonharmonic.  Then you look at the way in which the dominant tones are arranged to get the inversion.  It helps to know the key the song is in--and this can be determined by just listening and getting a feel for the overall chord structure.  If it's in some strange mode it will become apparent if you begin to notice that there are a lot of substitutions or accidentals.

vanblah

 

Music theory for "classical" is pretty much the same for contemporary music.  The rules of melody, harmony, counterpoint, etc. don't change with the style of music.  However, what you do with those rules is up to you.

This is not true at all, you are from Memphis TN?   I can't think of many more cities in America as important to the birth of its music as Memphis TN.. Perhaps New Orleans...  This you really ought to know..

American Blues and Jazz, "which is the USA's greatest gift to music," was spawn out of African Rhythms, ( songs in the South, that grew out of a time when our country practiced slavery, ) combined with the, "blue notes," of European scales and modal harmonies.

  Classical music did not have, "a back beat, and classical composers avoided blue notes."  The blue notes in American Music where essentially, "a rebellion against what was an off shoot of a European Society that had oppressed and enslaved a group of people."  

Counterpoint is not a building block of music.  Its a stylization of melody.  Music only comes down to 4 basic building blocks.  Tempo, Rhythm, Melody and Harmony.

What is going on with music in America, and all around the world today is:  A bunch of people who refuse to self educate themselves on the history of the music they are trying to play.  I don't care if you are Nicki Minaj or Katey Perry..  What you are doing in music has buried the true history of American Music.  It does not represent the slave culture, the freedom sought, and the oppression suffered by African Americans in the South during the birth of Jazz, or the combination of European Scales and African Rhythms.

Furthermore.. Original hip hop..  That came out of New York City in the 1980s, was born by mixing and sampling the records of Jazz.  My, my, my has it lost its way...




Note to Mods and Others:  I realize this is a difficult post.  The post is not a political statement.  I would appreciate a PM, if anybody thinks this post goes too far, rather than somebody coming along to edit it, without my knowledge.  It just so happens to be the history of music in America.