• Techniques
  • Phase issues and how to check them in mono/EQ? (p.2)
2012/10/13 17:56:28
droddey
It could potentially analyze the frequency content and only boost harmonics of the primary note. Dunno if it does that or not. If it does, it would lilely introduce significant latency, and it doesn't seem like that sort of plugin, but it might be. It would have to do a FFT on the signal to do that, and that is a pretty heavy operation.

Anyway, it sounds to me that you, like all of us initially, are over-intellectualizing things. Though there are of course lots of technical tricks, and if you want to make hyper-plastic modern pop then it's probably as much about processing as playing, generally speaking the fundamental issues that we all have to work through aren't that technical. It's all about deciding what's important and what's not, and giving the import things the frequency space they need, and making everything else subservient. And of course coming up with good arrangements that have minimal frequency conflict to begin with.

It's amazing what frequency masking can do. You get wierd effects like where cuting the bass at 2000 makes the mix far less muddy, which is completely non-obvious. It's because the high frequencies of the bass are masking the presence of the guitars or other instruments that have their presence up in that range.

If the mix is muddy, then boosting the bass probably isn't the problem. It's more likely that you need to be removing frequency content from more stuff, like high passing the guitars, making some cuts in the lower mids of the bass, finding a good place to cut the guitars in the mids and let the bass poke through. That sort of thing.

And just keeping in mind that everything can't be the star. Some things have to win and other things have to lose. Decide what you feel is important and work off that. If it's guitar based music, let the guitars sound like you want, and adjust everything else to fit within that. If you want everything to be big, reduce your arrangement to make it much more sparse.
2012/10/13 20:17:27
bitflipper
Ok correct me if I'm wrong, but if that plugin "adds" harmonics, isn't that the same as turning up/boosting the harmonics manually in the eq except it does it for you?

Not quite the same thing. You can use an EQ to boost harmonics, but you can only boost what's already present in the guitar's tone. 


Sometimes, you need to literally add harmonic content that wasn't there to begin with. This is exactly what a fuzzbox does, or a distorted amplifier, or a software amplifier simulator: adds brand-new spectral content that didn't originate from the instrument itself.
2012/10/13 21:55:27
mattplaysguitar
bitflipper



Ok correct me if I'm wrong, but if that plugin "adds" harmonics, isn't that the same as turning up/boosting the harmonics manually in the eq except it does it for you?

Not quite the same thing. You can use an EQ to boost harmonics, but you can only boost what's already present in the guitar's tone. 


Sometimes, you need to literally add harmonic content that wasn't there to begin with. This is exactly what a fuzzbox does, or a distorted amplifier, or a software amplifier simulator: adds brand-new spectral content that didn't originate from the instrument itself.

Or harmonic exciter.


Dave Pensado is a huge fan of MaxxBass. He seems to use it on every track!


From the limited research I have done, nothing seems to match it. But I'm sure there are good cheap alternatives out there which will do similar things regardless. MaxxBass has a pretty good reputation, I believe.
2012/10/13 22:13:59
sharpdion23
And just keeping in mind that everything can't be the star. Some things have to win and other things have to lose. Decide what you feel is important and work off that. If it's guitar based music, let the guitars sound like you want, and adjust everything else to fit within that. If you want everything to be big, reduce your arrangement to make it much more sparse. 


Thanks Dean, with that, you answered my next question!


Sometimes, you need to literally add harmonic content that wasn't there to begin with.


Never knew! Do you recommend adding harmonics rather than manually cutting or boosting in the eq? 


Or harmonic exciter.

I have a plugin called Izotope Ozone which a friend told me about and it seemed like a great plugin. It  has a harmonic exciter. Though I never got around  using it because I wasn't sure how to use it.
2012/10/14 09:29:22
Jeff Evans
I find that measurement devices may only tell part of the story. They wont tell you if the mix is not good on mono. I use a third speaker and it is small in its own little box similar to Auratone style. I sum L+R and feed that into an amp which drives it. When using it I keep the volume low and well below the main stereo monitors.

It is superior to two speakers with the mono switch on. There is nothing quite like all your mix coming from one small spot. Firstly I aim for a good mix on the stereo main speakers first. Usually after that I switch to the mono speaker and usually only have to trim a few things to keep it sounding good too. Any (technical) issues due to phase cancellations become very obvious on the small speaker. But even if things are all working great collapsing stereo wide mixes down to mono, the mix needs to be refined to get it sounding very strong on the mono speaker. 

All the points mentioned previously reveal themselves and all you have to do is modify things so they fit a lot better and clarity reigns supreme. Up louder on the stereo mains again and all is usually also very well and should not change much.

Using your ears to hear how your mix sounds in mono from a mono speaker is a good thing to do in conjunction with measurements such as phase meters etc.

In a funny way you can control the width of your stereo mix by what you hear in the mono speaker. By summing Left and Right, sounds that are panned in the centre and also sounds that are stereo but on both sides will add in the correct balance on the small speaker. But single point mono sounds that are panned toward either side can sound a little lower. Trimming these up in the small speaker has the effect of almost widening the mix on the extremes a bit. It really helps stopping those single point mono sounds from getting lost. 

It also stops you from using say three similar sounds and just relying on panning them to separate them. Because everything is all lined up behind each other almost on the small speaker you have to go to extra lengths to make those three similar sounds be a little different from each other. On the other hand you may have a lot of similar sounds and done that for creating a wider deeper stereo image. Panning those in stereo will make them sound great. The small speaker will also tell you if all that is being summed OK and you aim for hearing the same lushness in the small speaker as you do in the larger stereo monitors. 


2012/10/14 11:15:05
bitflipper
A harmonic exciter is a type of distortion effect, conceptually no different from a fuzzbox, just more subtle, possibly frequency-nonlinear and able to do a mix of even and odd harmonics. Tape simulators are another variation on the same theme.

Ozone's exciter is good, but it's a heavyweight plugin that you wouldn't want to use on too many individual tracks. Ozone 5 Advanced does give you the exciter as a separate plugin, but I can't afford it. MaxxBass supposedly uses some kind of super-secret patented algorithm. I understand that Renaissance Bass does the same thing, but I don't own either of them so can't comment from experience. I'm sure bapu and yorolpal can, though.

The best all-around distortion/exciter/saturator plugin I've found so far is FabFilter's Saturn. At subtle settings it can do wonderful things to bass, vocals, guitars or even full mixes.
2012/10/14 15:47:27
sharpdion23
Ozone's exciter is good, but it's a heavyweight plugin that you wouldn't want to use on too many individual tracks. 


Yeah, I totally agree. Though I'm not sure if this is a great workaround, but export and import back the track keeping the original as backup.
12
© 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1

Use My Existing Forum Account

Use My Social Media Account