Mike...you mention Theodore Krueger and said 'he's fast, i.e. 'when you watch him work in PRV'...I can't find the file you must have been watching.  

I'm with the "let humans play it" crowd. Now, the are other ways to humanizing a piece with absolute on the spot timing (dynamics, arrangement, etc.) I think it may serve you better to humanize it that way then worrying about timing.

I think if you write it, so that it is off (ie: syncopation by anticipation and duration) in the first place, there wouldn't be a need to skew it afterwards.

Most often, the instruments in isolation are off-beat (if written that way), but hearing them altogether makes for a nice glue effect. There's the issue of counting correctly; however, it can be done.

What you don't wanna do is if/when you're composing is place a human behind the instrument because there's no way of knowing if something is playable. Likewise, if you're playing a part yourself and can't do it like you hear it, maybe someone else can and that person will tell you.

Janet


Mike...you mention Theodore Krueger and said 'he's fast, i.e. 'when you watch him work in PRV'...I can't find the file you must have been watching.  

Hi Janet, Here's one example. He has a video channel on YouTube and many of the videos are examples of how he composes while others are simply music videos. You have to sort of pick through them.

Here's one on orchestral composition. It starts slow and then picks up speed:

http://youtu.be/3vXcjlxK4DQ?hd=1

I think the point he demonstrates is that a human composer can think much like a human musician, with intent to express a sensitivity that we associate with musicians playing music.


best regards,
mike

BTW, you can skip ahead to hear the finished composition here and then go back to the 1st "episode" I linked to above to see how he does it:

http://youtu.be/8ZgZjHS2eOo?hd=1&t=6m30s

Thank you Mike!  WOW!!  That's FUN watching him do that.  He thinks SO differently than I do when composing (probably more like someone who knows what they're doing!)  :)  Ron F. (rolifer) said this is how he does it too....vertically, a measure at a time.  I tend to work horizontally, an instrument at a time.  I don't even know if I could do it this way, but it might be fun to try.  Thank you for introducing me to him! 

I should do a video of me working.  That would put someone to sleep soon!  lol

Nah, Janet, I'd watch it. :)

dmbaer, just for arguments sake... I have some experience using Reason and what Reason calls ReGroove I don't know the algorithm or anything, but it's a tool specifically to humanize a track or the whole song and it's quite effective.  I imagine it's at least somewhat similar to what Jeff mentioned, and yeah, it can get kinda boozy if that's what you are after.  It has "slide" and "shuffle" that work independently of each other and are fully adjustable (via virtual knobs).  Plus, it can have multiple tracks routed to it and each track effected differently via faders.  It's pretty interesting anyway.  When you have one of your programmed drum modules already set to Shuffle and you add on a ReGroove instance with more shuffle and the addition of slide... It can get pretty far out.  I just thought I'd mention it. 

I DO completely agree that there is nothing like a human performance though for more traditional music making. But in a club, it's gotta be head on.

Please don't anyone throw tomatoes at me.  I still mix in Sonar. :)

mike_mccue

Here's one on orchestral composition. It starts slow and then picks up speed:

http://youtu.be/3vXcjlxK4DQ?hd=1  

He's fast on the Piano Roll.  More than once I have tried to write a bass part with the mouse in real time during playback, but couldn't keep it up for long.  I kept thinking of the scene from Wallace & Grommit where they were placing pieces of track in front of the moving train.

Wallace & Grommit are my main inspiration, too. 

@ Julianna... :)