• Techniques
  • Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones? (p.2)
2012/09/11 01:33:42
Rus W
Oh, dear! Where shall we begin? Scale degrees!

Well, you said you felt stuck on the I-IV-V. How many chords are left? Four. What are they?

ii, iii, vi, and viio. These are 3 minor and a diminshed. 

I-ii-iii-IV-V-vi-viio = Harmonized Major Scale (Triads)

I-ii-iii-IV-V-vi-vii% (half-diminished) = Harmonized Major Scale (Sevenths)

As someone mentioned with substitutions, here's the most common ways to get them:

Tonic-Parallel Relationship (Key Signatures)

For every I, you can swap a vi (C/a)
For every IV, you can swap a ii (F/d)
For every V, you can swap a iii (G/e)

Inversions (triads, but predominately sevenths; Tonic-Parallel kinda goes here, too)

Every m7 can be inverted into a M6 (Am7/C6, Dm7/F6, Em7/G6)

Every half-diminshed seventh (m7b5) upon inversion will become a minor six (m6)

Am7b5/Cm6, Dm7b5/Fm6, Em7b5/Gm6

Common Tones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp0iBMZ6bG4&feature=g-user-c (What other chord will the melody note fit in?)

Circle of Fourths: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITft3mjiCQY&feature=channel&list=UL (ii7s for V7s)

Secondary Dominants (V7/ii, V7/iii, V7/V, etc.)

Take this progression: C-Am-Dm-G7-C

Using a secondary dominant: C-A7-Dm-G7-C; C-A7-D7-G7-C - Two SDs)

Tritone Substitutions: CMaj7-Eb7-AbMaj9-G7b9-CMaj9 - Two of them. CMaj7-Eb7-AbMaj9-Db9-CMaj9 (Three of them)

Alterations: CMaj9-A7b9-Dm7-G13b9-C

Diminshed seventh sub: CMaj9-C#dim7-Dm7-G7-C

(Note: the 7b9 and diminished seventh subs are identical in sonority. A7b9 is A-C#-E-G-Bb. A C# fully diminished seventh has four identical notes.)

Chord over Chord - G13b9 = E/G7. Actually, this isn't meant to be a sub, but to help the performer identify what to play if s/he hasn't gotten into extended and altered chords. The E/G7 means to play the two-note seventh (G7) in your left hand and the E triad in your right hand.

If you were you play every note from G-E: G-B-D-F-Ab-(B)-E, here you have the, root, third (duplicate), fifth, seventh, flatted ninth, and thirteenth. (9 = 2, 11 = 4, 13 = 6)

If the I chord is a 7, 9, 11 (9sus) or 13, look to see what other chords are in there and choose the appropriate scale degree:

CMaj7 = C-E-G + E-G-B; iii/IMaj7
CMaj9 = C-E-G + E-G-B + G-B-D = iii7 or V/IMaj9
Cm7 = C-Eb-G + Eb-G-Bb = III/i7
Cm9 = C-Eb-G-Bb-D = IIIMaj7 or v/i
C9sus = C-F-G-Bb-D = v7/i or bVII6/I
C13 = C-Bb-D-F-A = v9/I, bVIIMaj7/I, ii/I

The key to using substitutions is understanding how the chords function.

I/iii/vi = Tonic Functionality
ii/IV = Subdominant Functionality
V/vii = Dominant Functionality

In C: C-Am-Dm-G7 - I-vi-ii-V
In C: C-Dm-F-G - I-ii-IV-V (My Girl)
In C: C-Am-F-G - I-vi-IV-V (Heart and Soul)

Girl From Ipanema I: Cmaj9-D9-Dm9-G7(add13)-CMaj9 - I-V9/V-ii-V-I

Girl From Ipanema II: Cmaj9-Ab7-FMaj7-G7#5#9-CMaj9 - I-bVI-IV-V-I

Girl From Ipanema III: 

Em7-Am7-G7b9-C6-Am9-Am-D9b5-D7-Dm9-Dm7-Db13-Db9-Bb9#11-A7#5b9-G9sus-G13b9 (iii-vi-V-I-vi ... V9/V-V7/V-ii subV/V ... bVII9-V7/ii-V ...)

Girl From Ipanema III used tonic-parallel, secondary dominant, tritones, inversions, and extensions + alterations to come up with its chord sequence which formed to prolongation. (Four chords became 16 excluding the I chords at the beginning and end)

Here's a video explaining what is called Functional Harmony - this is where substitutions (re-harmonization) come from:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBNIxsyE9a8
2012/09/11 01:36:13
Rus W
mattplaysguitar


Hmm, that's gonna take a few re-reads to get my head around :|





Oh, really? Don't read my reply then! :)

2012/09/11 01:40:56
mattplaysguitar
Rus W


mattplaysguitar


Hmm, that's gonna take a few re-reads to get my head around :|





Oh, really? Don't read my reply then! :)

I recall some of your music theory posts a while ago. Let's just say that I'm scared right now ;)
2012/09/11 01:41:20
samhayman
Rus W


mattplaysguitar


Hmm, that's gonna take a few re-reads to get my head around :|





Oh, really? Don't read my reply then! :)

HAHA! :D yes I was just thinking like "and here's me trying to keep things simple" :)
2012/09/11 02:14:08
Rus W
samhayman


Rus W


mattplaysguitar


Hmm, that's gonna take a few re-reads to get my head around :|





Oh, really? Don't read my reply then! :)

HAHA! :D yes I was just thinking like "and here's me trying to keep things simple" :) 

Well, if we were to compare notes, you did keep things simple. I seem to have intimidated Matt; you just confused him! (And do check some of my posts and tell me you don't react the same way. I have likewise posts on other forums as well)
2012/09/11 02:32:48
samhayman
Rus W


samhayman


Rus W


mattplaysguitar


Hmm, that's gonna take a few re-reads to get my head around :|





Oh, really? Don't read my reply then! :)

HAHA! :D yes I was just thinking like "and here's me trying to keep things simple" :) 

Well, if we were to compare notes, you did keep things simple. I seem to have intimidated Matt; you just confused him! (And do check some of my posts and tell me you don't react the same way. I have likewise posts on other forums as well)



Erm... since you're coming from your high horse... No I wouldn't be intimidated because at a glance I could perfectly understand what you were saying.


I'm 34 years old. Been a concert pianist for the past 12 years - classical and jazz - so I think I know my theory.


In trying to keep things simple, I would assume that mine was a good starting point. In essence you said the same things I said but in more detail = more space to confuse people.

Besides, you accused me of confusing Matt. Yet you're proud that you INTIMIDATE him?! Wow really makes sense.

And hey, I was being cheerful about the whole matter. You didn't need to come down on me like a brick.

Peace,
Sam


2012/09/11 02:56:02
mattplaysguitar
Just to be clear, I haven't slowly gone through each of those posts yet to try and absorb it all properly. I've only quickly skimmed (have not actually read yours at all Rus, I didn't realise you had made the post yet!! I only just saw it now!). I just saw lots of letters everywhere and freaked out! I am at work right now so can't study them properly yet ;) No need to fight, I was simply making jokingly scared remarks!
2012/09/11 03:01:36
samhayman
mattplaysguitar


Just to be clear, I haven't slowly gone through each of those posts yet to try and absorb it all properly. I've only quickly skimmed (have not actually read yours at all Rus, I didn't realise you had made the post yet!! I only just saw it now!). I just saw lots of letters everywhere and freaked out! I am at work right now so can't study them properly yet ;) No need to fight, I was simply making jokingly scared remarks!

I totally agree, Matt.


Sometimes I really have no idea where all this attitude comes from on this forum. I just joined very recently and I'm already starting to get fed up.


I'm talking in general here, not just this particular occasion.


Anyway... back to the scope of this forum, if you need any help getting your head around some of the points, ask away :)


We're all here to help each other and share what we know, not confuse or intimidate people with our knowledge.
2012/09/11 03:57:14
Rus W
samhayman


Rus W


samhayman


Rus W


mattplaysguitar


Hmm, that's gonna take a few re-reads to get my head around :|





Oh, really? Don't read my reply then! :)

HAHA! :D yes I was just thinking like "and here's me trying to keep things simple" :) 

Well, if we were to compare notes, you did keep things simple. I seem to have intimidated Matt; you just confused him! (And do check some of my posts and tell me you don't react the same way. I have likewise posts on other forums as well)



Erm... since you're coming from your high horse... No I wouldn't be intimidated because at a glance I could perfectly understand what you were saying.


I'm 34 years old. Been a concert pianist for the past 12 years - classical and jazz - so I think I know my theory.


In trying to keep things simple, I would assume that mine was a good starting point. In essence you said the same things I said but in more detail = more space to confuse people.

Besides, you accused me of confusing Matt. Yet you're proud that you INTIMIDATE him?! Wow really makes sense.

And hey, I was being cheerful about the whole matter. You didn't need to come down on me like a brick.

Peace,
Sam

You missed the humor in that! I wasn't belittling you at all. When I made the earlier comment, apparently Matt flashed back - if not he wouldn't have said what he did. I knew he meant it in jest as I meant my comment in jest. I've written many a post such as that and have gotten the same reactions from people as Matt. I'm proud to know what I know - not because I know what I know. Huge difference.

Now, if anyone's on a high-horse, just re-read your first sentence. Again, the "compare notes" and "different reactions" was nothing more than a harmless jab. If it did seem like I came down on you, I'm sorry for I didn't mean to. In the end, makes no difference if it's a paragraph or a dissertation as long as it gets to whomever wants it.

Did I elaborate too much? Perhaps I did, but either reply can be taken piece by piece.
2012/09/11 04:07:55
Rus W
mattplaysguitar


Just to be clear, I haven't slowly gone through each of those posts yet to try and absorb it all properly. I've only quickly skimmed (have not actually read yours at all Rus, I didn't realise you had made the post yet!! I only just saw it now!). I just saw lots of letters everywhere and freaked out! I am at work right now so can't study them properly yet ;) No need to fight, I was simply making jokingly scared remarks!





I knew this!! I'm a member on another forum where the theory discussion is way more detailed then I could ever dream and I've got lots of dissertations there as well. 

Go there if you dare!


http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19277
http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19272
http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19269
  

As far as the attitude thing which I know you didn't ask about - I think it has to do with the aim of this forum. It's more on the production side whether than the composition side of things


Chalk all of this up to a misunderstanding on both parties



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